usanyp: New York Parkways

[yakra]

So do I assume correctly that:
- the proposed routing would name the point at the Caton Ave Overpass "OcePkwy"

I'm thinking, leave it labeled "5", and just change its coords.

- Ocean Parkway in usanyp would be extended to have its northern terminus at the same coordinates
- the point name for said northern terminus would be "NY27"

Correct on both of these.

It still leaves the northernmost 3 blocks of Ocean Parkway (which are part of the named road "Ocean Parkway" but not part of reference route 908H) unmapped, but... that's short enough that I'm not terribly bothered letting it get lost in the noise in the area.

"OCEAN PWY svce rds" per GIS -- fudged in the field for simplicity? 

[yakra]

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/2078

[yakra]

LaSalle Expressway topic split:
http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2701

[charliezeb]

New, I suppose, information on West River Parkway (SR 957C) in Grand Island, Erie Co.

I attempted to clinch that road on Saturday, and most of it is now closed. The powers that be (presumably including the governor) have decided to convert the bulk of the parkway into a pedestrian and bicycle linear park. Two very short sections (neither of which is currently marked with a waypoint) remain open: from South Parkway to Park Road and from Bedell Road to I-190. Otherwise, traffic is detoured onto surface streets Oakfield Road and West River Road. From what I could see along the closed section (which was being repaved for a smooth path), there was perhaps one speed limit sign still up along with maybe one reference marker and a leftover PARKING AREA sign.

It may still be legislated as SR 957C, but since it's not driveable (except by bicycle), perhaps its inclusion should be reconsidered.

[mapcat]

It may still be legislated as SR 957C, but since it's not driveable (except by bicycle), perhaps its inclusion should be reconsidered.

Being closed to cars isn't always a deal-breaker. M-185 and part of Historic US 66 crossing the Mississippi River, for example.

[Duke87]

But there is also precedent for excluding closed portions of routes. See CA 39 and US 87 in Wyoming.

Philosophically, I am opposed to including any roads or sections of roads that are permanently closed to motorized traffic.

M-185 is a bit of a special case since local custom among Michigan roadgeeks seems to be to accept it as a legitimate part of the state highway system. So I'm fine with deferring to that.


I would definitely vote in favor of killing West River Parkway on account of it being closed to auto traffic, though. Its inclusion was iffy to begin with, this is one of those roads that is reference numbered like a parkway but doesn't really fit the mold of what you'd typically think of as a New York parkway qualitatively.

[yakra]

Being closed to cars isn't always a deal-breaker. M-185 and part of Historic US 66 crossing the Mississippi River, for example.

In this system, there's also the precedent of the top of ProMtnHwy, discussed upthread.

Maybe @vdeane has the scoop on what will become of the reference route number, that could allow me to more easily make a decision?

But there is also precedent for excluding closed portions of routes. See CA 39 and US 87 in Wyoming.

A different beast. These roads used to be open, then were closed to the general (motoring?) public overall, and aren't intended to be used for transportation now.
MI185, IL US66HisCha, and NY ProMtnHwy are intended to be used by the public -- just not by cars.

M-185 is a bit of a special case since local custom among Michigan roadgeeks seems to be to accept it as a legitimate part of the state highway system. So I'm fine with deferring to that.

Less a local custom and more MI DOT, innit?

doesn't really fit the mold of what you'd typically think of as a New York parkway qualitatively.

OI! Watch yr pronouns!

[yakra]

Leaving this here to potentially complicate matters in the future:
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/structures/repository/manuals/inventory/appendg.pdf

[vdeane]

Maybe @vdeane has the scoop on what will become of the reference route number, that could allow me to more easily make a decision?

Don't I wish.  I always assumed the whole parkway would be closed, and now it appears that this might not be the case.  Or maybe they're just constructing it one segment at a time.

Leaving this here to potentially complicate matters in the future:
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/structures/repository/manuals/inventory/appendg.pdf

I think some of those might not be reference routes any more.  Or maybe they're reserved?  At the very least, I wasn't able to find them in the RIS shapefiles.

[yakra]

https://www.dot.ny.gov/NSPRemoval

Project Overview

The approximately 2 mile long section of the Niagara Scenic Parkway within City of Niagara Falls, north of Main Street, will be removed and its footprint restored to a park-like setting. Parkway traffic will be accommodated by reconstructing Whirlpool Street and Third Street. After the Parkway is removed, city residents will have access to the Niagara Gorge, and area visitors will be able to pursue a variety of recreational opportunities in the newly created Niagara Gorge State Park.
...
Status: Under construction with completion scheduled – June 2020

[cl94]

I just reviewed usanyp and I have a few comments and recent changes:

• NiaScePkwy has been permanently closed south of FinDr for a few months. As such, point "NY104_Nia" should be deleted. They're obliterating the entire footprint of the road.
• WestRivPkwy has been permanently closed except for stubs connecting to the Beaver Island SP traffic circle and Exit 20. I suggest we delete this route. This was always one of those "parkway in name only" roads and it is no longer maintained by the state as a parkway.
• If we're going as signed, BayPkwy begins at the West End turnaround loop.
• SevLakDr, as signed, begins at NY 17.

[yakra]

NiaScePkwy has been permanently closed south of FinDr for a few months. As such, point "NY104_Nia" should be deleted. They're obliterating the entire footprint of the road

Ah, the above is already in progress, and we're closed! Roger. I'll get on this.
Done, with a corresponding label change on NY104. No updates entry; noFinDr AltLabels for the preview system; I wanna see who's awake.
I can always grep -i 'Waypoint label(s) not found in line: NY ' logs/users/*.log when we're ready to go active!

WestRivPkwy has been permanently closed except for stubs connecting to the Beaver Island SP traffic circle and Exit 20. I suggest we delete this route. This was always one of those "parkway in name only" roads and it is no longer maintained by the state as a parkway.

The semi-status of this limbo-route has been the biggest sticking point keeping usanyp from activation. There's the occasional route or segment on the site not open to motorized traffic (most notably MI185), so I haven't been able to fully justify removing it yet. Waiting & seeing. If we can confirm that Reference Route # 957C is no longer in use, I'll give it the axe.

If we're going as signed, BayPkwy begins at the West End turnaround loop.

Going by what's contained in the corresponding NYSDOT reference route.
What gets included?

There are a couple cases that don't include unsigned portions of a reference route, but nothing that's not on a reference route. Which brings us to...

SevLakDr, as signed, begins at NY 17.

"Stupid Truck Routes", n'at. Mapcat brought this up in person a bit back...
SR 987E ends at the JohRd point.

Yes, this is the south endpoint. The shapefiles and TDV agree. The 2014 TDR description looks a little screwy, but saying it ends here is a valid interpretation of the mileage figures.
  South of the endpoint, and north of Waldron Terrace, Seven Lakes Drive is not a reference route.
  South of Waldron Terrace, Seven Lakes Drive is reference route 981G, and not part of the Parkway system.

[cl94]

I have heard confirmation today that West River Parkway between Long Road and Baseline Road has been removed. I will try and check for myself when in town next week, but since this was basically the entire road, I propose axing it altogether.

A well-known user on AARoads and Wikipedia has photos from today that will be posted within the next couple of days showing that it has been completely removed. Once he posts them, I'll share them here.

[yakra]

You mean physically removed, yes? Demolished (or, mostly so, like enough to become a bike path)?

A bit esoteric, but...
I want to be absolutely sure the reference number is gone, and we don't have another bikes-only situation like MI185

[vdeane]

As I understand, they only closed it to cars between Oakfield Road and Long Road.  From the photos, it appears they simply paved over the road and striped bicycle and pedestrian paths on top, so from that, we could have a MI 185 situation on our hands.  That said, the photos show that the signs at exit 20A have been changed to West River Road instead of West River Parkway.  If the south end is consistent with this, I could see removing it on the grounds that it isn't signed.  On the other hand, going by signage alone could open a can of worms on some of the other parkways.

It IS still shown on the Functional Class Viewer (which sees more frequent updates than Traffic Data Viewer, at the cost of not showing roads with a local functional class), but so is the physically removed section of the Niagara Scenic Parkway south of Findlay Drive (which from photos appears to have been realigned to feed directly into Whirlpool Street).