usanyp: New York Parkways

[cl94]

I vote for moving the PIP over to usasf. Internally, the PIP (as well as the Harriman State Park parkways, for that matter) is a different ballgame from most of the other parkways, and not just because it crosses a state line.

Frankly, if there was a "select state park highways" system, the PIP would belong in that given that it's owned and maintained by the Palisades Interstate Park Commission. But we don't have that, so usasf it is.

[si404]

the PIP ... is a different ballgame from most of the other parkways,

Frankly, if there was a "select state park highways" system, the PIP would belong in that given that it's owned and maintained by the Palisades Interstate Park Commission. But we don't have that, so usasf it is.

OK, I change where I think it would fit best.

[Markkos1992]

I think the PIP should be in usanyp, and the GSP belongs in usasf. 

The part of the GSP in NY is minimal, and the PIP is practically a NY parkway IMO that happens to enter NJ.

[Jim]

So what bothers people more?  A route that should be connected but isn't because it spans two systems, or a route or routes in a system where they don't really belong but properly connected?

[vdeane]

I think the PIP should be in usanyp, and the GSP belongs in usasf. 

The part of the GSP in NY is minimal, and the PIP is practically a NY parkway IMO that happens to enter NJ.

I second this.  Especially as the GSP in NY is part of the Thruway system, allows trucks (except the part between the last interchange and the state line) (although so did the western end of the LOSP until about 10 years ago), and I believe is officially known as the Garden State Parkway Connector.  The PIP also has contiguous exit numbers and mileage, and uses the same shield as Seven Lakes Drive, so it would feel odd to have those in separate systems.

[Duke87]

I think the best and cleanest solution is to leave both the PIP and the GSP in usasf. This allows users to mark them clinched as connected routes, and can even be philosophically justified as "well, neither of those are purely New York parkways".

Indeed, the Palisades is specifically an Interstate parkway (says it in the name!), and the Garden State Parkway fundamentally is a New Jersey thing, it just happens to have an extension into New York at its northern end.

Also FWIW, neither is an NYSDOT maintained roadway in spite of their reference route numbers - PIP, as mentioned above, is maintained by a separate park commission, and the GSP extension is part of the New York State Thruway system (it even allows trucks between the Thruway mainline and the one NY exit).

[vdeane]

One thing that's worth noting is that Seven Lakes Drive and the PIP have the (nearly) exact  same shield.

[cl94]

One thing that's worth noting is that Seven Lakes Drive and the PIP have the (nearly) exact  same shield.

Seven Lakes Drive is another one of the special cases that isn't a typical NY parkway. It's a state park road that happens to be on the parkway list. Indeed, PIPC maintains it as a park road.

[dave1693]

Also FWIW, neither is an NYSDOT maintained roadway in spite of their reference route numbers - PIP, as mentioned above, is maintained by a separate park commission, and the GSP extension is part of the New York State Thruway system (it even allows trucks between the Thruway mainline and the one NY exit).

And NJDOT maintains neither the PIP nor the GSP in NJ, but both have official-but-unsigned state route numbers.

[Markkos1992]

I guess this is mostly directed at vdeane and cl94, but does the general population of NYC consider the PIP as a NYC Parkway or not?

[Duke87]

I guess this is mostly directed at vdeane and cl94, but does the general population of NYC consider the PIP as a NYC Parkway or not?

The general population doesn't know the difference between a US highway and a state route. They're not going to draw any distinction between different types of parkways.


That said, this thought makes another potential solution occur to me: what if instead of "New York Parkways" we had "US State Named Parkways" (usasp)? Then the PIP and GSP could get both their NJ and NY portions included in this system without issue. The contents of usakyp could get dumped into it too, and you might be able to pluck a thing or two elsewhere out of usasf.

[vdeane]

Yeah, I would say most people in the area wouldn't differentiate the PIP from the other parkways, but pretty much the only people in NY who know the difference between a US route and a state route are roadgeeks and some DOT employees, and where I grew up, people didn't even differentiate interstates, so that doesn't say much either way.

[Markkos1992]

Yeah, I would say most people in the area wouldn't differentiate the PIP from the other parkways, but pretty much the only people in NY who know the difference between a US route and a state route are roadgeeks and some DOT employees, and where I grew up, people didn't even differentiate interstates, so that doesn't say much either way.

Yeah, this is the answer I was thinking would be the case. 

[vdeane]

Street view now exists along West River Parkway.  It appears the north remnant is now signed West River Road and the closed portion is West River Trail (so no M-185 situation, at least per signage), while the southern piece is still West River Parkway.

[Markkos1992]

I think the PIP should be in usanyp, and the GSP belongs in usasf. 

The part of the GSP in NY is minimal, and the PIP is practically a NY parkway IMO that happens to enter NJ.

I guess I am now at an either-or in the case of the PIP.  It really does not seem to be that big of a deal to me in regard to which system it is in.