canqc: Quebec Provincial Highways

[oscar]

QC148
 - ON/QC border off OSM

I agree,  but this would require a change to ON 148 to keep the routes in synch. Also, while online maps agree the border point should be somewhere in the middle of the river rather than the shoreline, they disagree on where in the river.

One of Transports Quebec's online maps (terrible interface, but at least it shows rivers) also puts QC 148's west end in the middle of the river.

@rickmastfan67, your thoughts?

[rickmastfan67]

QC148
 - ON/QC border off OSM

I agree,  but this would require a change to ON 148 to keep the routes in synch. Also, while online maps agree the border point should be somewhere in the middle of the river rather than the shoreline, they disagree on where in the river.

One of Transports Quebec's online maps (terrible interface, but at least it shows rivers) also puts QC 148's west end in the middle of the river.

@rickmastfan67, your thoughts?

Choose a location, and I'll adjust the file on my end.

[oscar]

Thanks! I'll change it for QC 148 to:

ON/QC http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.807314&lon=-77.042819

Included in https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3797

[rickmastfan67]

Thanks! I'll change it for QC 148 to:

ON/QC http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.807314&lon=-77.042819

Included in https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3797

ON-148 fixed in: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3799

[vdeane]

QC366
 - *OldA-5_S should be the label of the missing corresponding point on the surface road. Add that, and relabel current point
 

@si404, please take a look at what I've done with QC366 in the vicinity of A-5 (ignore the NMP and hidden junction errors, to be fixed in my next pull request). Is that what you had in mind?

The closed points on A-5 and QC366 are guesstimates, based on the old waypoint for A-5's north end.

Speaking of that area, I noticed QC 105 has separate points for A-5(28) and ChValWak.  Shouldn't that be a one point per interchange situation?  Someone traveling northbound on QC 105 wouldn't even drive the road between those points.

[oscar]

Speaking of that area, I noticed QC 105 has separate points for A-5(28) and ChValWak.  Shouldn't that be a one point per interchange situation?  Someone traveling northbound on QC 105 wouldn't even drive the road between those points.

For whatever reason (maybe someone who traveled QC 105 before A-5 was extended that far), someone is using the ChValWak waypoint.

[oscar]

QC263:

 - add points either end of the shortcut through Saint-Norbert-D'Arthabaska

Both of Transports Quebec's online maps confirm that the "shortcut" is part of QC263, and Rue Notre-Dame isn't (contrary to OSM). I'll adjust the route file accordingly.

- Rang3 -> 3eRang?

GMSV shows a Rang3 street blade at that intersection. This kind of simplified Rang__ signage seems common in Quebec, based on spot checks of similar differences between our waypoint labels and the names shown in OSM.

[oscar]

QC344
 - does there need to be points on A-640 and this road for the single ramps off the autoroute and the corresponding points down those roads on the provincial highway?

I don't quite understand. Are you referring to on-ramps to A-640 that don't have corresponding off-ramps and so don't have exit numbers? Like the on-ramp from Boul. des Pins between A-640 exits 2 and 8, and from Rue Eustache between A-640 exits 8 and 11?

Whatever we do for A-640 (points for those on-ramps could replace nearby shaping points), I don't see the need to add points to QC 344 for roads leading to such apparently minor connectors to A-640. Less minor connectors, leading to exit-numbered A-640 interchanges, are another story.

I'm with si404 here. Onramps are just as important as offramps, so they should definitely be included on 640, and if there are signs on 344 for these connections, they should be added there too. However, in these particular cases, I see nothing on 344, so maybe don't bother.

I've added two points for on-ramps to A-640 with no corresponding off-ramps or exit numbers -- BoulLauThe between exits 2 and 8, and RueStEus between exits 8 and 11. Both replace nearby shaping points. These A-640 changes will be included in tonight's pull request, along with updates to various non-Autoroutes (and synching changes to intersecting Autoroutes) east of Montreal.

No change yet to the nearby QC344.

[oscar]

Here's the list of routes for which I've completed updates, including changes from si404's peer review:

101 104 105 107 108 109 111 112 113 116 117 122 125
131 132 133 134 136 137 138 (all five segments already in HB) 139 141 143 147 148
153 155 157 158 159 161 162 165 167 169 170 171 172 173 175 185 195 197 198 199

201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219
220 221 223 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 239
241 243 245 247 249 251 253 255 257 259 261 263 265 267 269 271 273 275 276 277 279
281 283 285 287 293 295 298 299

301 303 307 309 311 315 317 321 321riv 323 325 327 329 333 335 337 338 339
340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 354 358 359
360 361 362 363 364 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373
381 382 385 386 388 389 390 391 393 395 397 399

This should be all of them, subject to double-checking once the latest files are pulled in.

[oscar]

QC173
 - is 2eKen necessary? If so, is that its name?

ESRI WorldStreetMap calls it "Le Deuxieme-Kennebec". (I couldn't find anything in GMSV to confirm.)

The point isn't that useful, except to avoid a visible distance error, and also perhaps for somebody who chose to turn around before the Canada/USA border. It's not in use.

[oscar]

Bringing this back from the dead ...

QC138:
shapefiles have the E end here

Which is at the entrance to the Kegaska airport. But Transports Quebec online mapping has route 138 now continuing past the airport entrance about 1 km. I'll move QC 138's east end there. There are a lot of photos on the Internet showing a QC 138 Fin sign at the location now shown (until tonight's pull request, since I need to make another tweak to the QC138 route file) as QC 138's east end. But Transports Quebec has been slowly extending QC 138 east toward La Romaine, so I'd conclude the route has since been extended at least to the airport and a little beyond.

BTW, there are possible isolated segments of QC 138 in La Romaine (at least from the harbor to the airport), Chevery, and Pakuashipi, some of which reportedly are signed and one of which (Chevery) is in OSM. Everything I've seen in MTQ online data shows route numbers for those segments other than 00138, so I'm inclined to treat them as "future 138" at most. @yakra, do the most recent shapefiles say anything more?

[oscar]

Tonight's pull request focuses on the Saguenay region of northern Quebec.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3824

Two notable changes:

-- The north end of QC 175 was moved to the underpass just north of Riv. Saguenay, which is also the point for the QC 172 intersection, per Transports Quebec online mapping. This eliminates a false concurrency (shown in OSM) between QC 172 and QC 175.

-- A false concurrency south of the river has also been removed. The HB right now shows a concurrency between parts of QC 175 and QC 372 in downtown Chicoutimi, which is shown in OSM. Transports Quebec mapping disagrees, showing that QC 372 continues east of QC 175 on Boul. Saguenay, or in one dataset doesn't exist at all. I couldn't find anything on the Transports Quebec website about any decommissioning of QC 372. The dataset showing QC 372 reports that it's all municipally-maintained (but still considered QC 372 -- I've seen other locally-maintained segments treated as part of otherwise provincially-maintained routes), which might explain the difference. In any case, I've moved QC 372 off the QC 175 concurrence and onto Boul. Saguenay.

I'm the only user who's driven any of the route, in October 2017, and recall the signage was consistent with the above.

[neroute2]

-- The north end of QC 175 was moved to the underpass just north of Riv. Saguenay, which is also the point for the QC 172 intersection, per Transports Quebec online mapping. This eliminates a false concurrency (shown in OSM) between QC 172 and QC 175.

It's not false; it's just a large interchange, with westbound 172 not merging into the main highway until north of Rue Roussel.

[vdeane]

Were a couple points on QC 170 swapped at some point?  The route near QC 169 doesn't match what's shown in OSM.

Speaking of that area, I noticed QC 105 has separate points for A-5(28) and ChValWak.  Shouldn't that be a one point per interchange situation?  Someone traveling northbound on QC 105 wouldn't even drive the road between those points.

For whatever reason (maybe someone who traveled QC 105 before A-5 was extended that far), someone is using the ChValWak waypoint.

Still, the situation as it is now basically says that QC 105 can only be clinched if you travel it in the southbound direction, since northbound now has a discontinuity between ChValWak and A-5(28).

[oscar]

Were a couple points on QC 170 swapped at some point?  The route near QC 169 doesn't match what's shown in OSM

Good catch. I'll fix it in tomorrow's pull request.

For whatever reason (maybe someone who traveled QC 105 before A-5 was extended that far), someone is using the ChValWak waypoint.

Still, the situation as it is now basically says that QC 105 can only be clinched if you travel it in the southbound direction, since northbound now has a discontinuity between ChValWak and A-5(28).

Not really. Somebody who wants to be fussy about it can always turn left at the east roundabout, do a U-turn at the west roundabout (about the only thing I like about roundabouts is that they make U-turns easy and perfectly legal), and pick up the northbound ramp onto A-5 from the east roundabout.