canqc: Quebec Provincial Highways

[yakra]

I'd keep the intersection point for all four routes where it is, and retain the graph connections.

[rickmastfan67]

Just one comment on a tricky issue, until I have some time to address the others.

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QC112:

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 - A-10(123A) -> QC249 (not a junction on A-10 or A-55, AFAICS)

It's an indirect junction with the Autoroutes, since Autoroute traffic heading toward QC 249 is directed onto QC 112 (which runs on a frontage road on both sides of A-10/55) to exit onto QC 249, and traffic from QC 249 briefly uses QC 112 to get to the Autoroutes. The A-10 and A-55 route files each have a 123A point for the QC 249 intersection. Kind of how we handle exits from express lanes onto collector/distributor roads. except the collector/distributor for A-10/55 is QC 112.

I am thinking that QC 112 should have shaping points added between the junctions on A-10 and A-55 without changing the visible points.  This would treat it a bit like FL 84, which mostly runs as a Frontage Road along I-75 and I-595, but I would definitely not consider it as concurrent with (hence continual breaking of it).

I'd recommend that rickmastfan67 look into my thoughts here.

I don't have FL-84 concurrent with I-595 there, except for the part that truly is (Exits 7 to 9C).  Hence why I added a few extra visible shaping points along it than normal, so I could keep the interchange ones still connected along the other parts.  But I might have to go back a tweak it along the I-75 part a little bit to re-add in graph connections, and a few extra visible points to break a concurrency.

[neroute2]

84 no longer overlaps 595 at all, after the recent construction.

[rickmastfan67]

84 no longer overlaps 595 at all, after the recent construction.

WB perhaps, but EB clearly still does.  FL-84 joins I-595's C/D lanes there, bases on all the exit signage (uses I-595 exit #'s) & overheads showing both routes.

Anyways, we should talk about this in the FL thread, not here and mess up this thread.

[yakra]

WB perhaps, but EB clearly still does.

LOL Fall River

[froggie]

Why the eastbound, rather than the westbound, lanes? And why not follow our usual practice for one-way couplets to put waypoints about halfway between the roadways, which in this case would be in the A-10/55 median?

Better highlights to the user that QC 112 and A-10/A-55 follow different carriageways here while avoiding the QC 112 line overlapping or crossing the A-10/A-55 line twice.

Yes, our usual practice is to put waypoints in between for one-way couplets.  But with few exceptions, we don't have two sets of carriageways, each with its own route number.

And the HB also would not show QC249 as an intersecting route for A-10/55, as I think it should considering QC 249 signage for the slip ramps between A-10/55 and QC 112.

Despite the signage, I don't see QC 249 as really intersecting A-10/A-55.  It would by far not be the first time a secondary route was signed despite the lack of a direct or semi-direct ramp connection.

I think if we move the 123 point at all (I'm trying to minimize changes to active TCH and A- routes, lest we take forever to make everything perfect), it should be in the middle of the A-10/A-55/QC 112 interchange, rather than a ramp location. Something like this, treating that interchange kinda like a trumpet interchange.

I'd concur with that.

[oscar]

Why the eastbound, rather than the westbound, lanes? And why not follow our usual practice for one-way couplets to put waypoints about halfway between the roadways, which in this case would be in the A-10/55 median?

Better highlights to the user that QC 112 and A-10/A-55 follow different carriageways here while avoiding the QC 112 line overlapping or crossing the A-10/A-55 line twice.

Yes, our usual practice is to put waypoints in between for one-way couplets.  But with few exceptions, we don't have two sets of carriageways, each with its own route number.

See Interstate 65 and US 31 in Indiana, between I-65 exits 1A and 4, where in Mapview the trace for US 31 disappears under the I-65 trace except parts at the highest zoom levels. Also, Interstate H-1 and HI 92 in Hawaii between H-1 exits 15 and 18, where HI 92 is on ground level while H-1 is on the viaduct above, but their horizontal centerlines are the same.

[yakra]

See Interstate 65 and US 31 in Indiana, between I-65 exits 1A and 4, where in Mapview the trace for US 31 disappears under the I-65 trace except parts at the highest zoom levels. Also, Interstate H-1 and HI 92 in Hawaii between H-1 exits 15 and 18, where HI 92 is on ground level while H-1 is on the viaduct above, but their horizontal centerlines are the same.

President George Bush Turnpike vs TX161 & TX190
TX130 vs US183
Routes 6, 79 & 138 in Fall River, MA

[vdeane]

My view is that if one route travels on separate parallel carriageways (especially if they're at surface level and don't have access control) is that the two routes shouldn't be treated as concurrent.  So I wouldn't have QC 112 as concurrent with A-55/A-10, nor QC 335 with A-40 (which currently does show as concurrent).

[oscar]

My view is that if one route travels on separate parallel carriageways (especially if they're at surface level and don't have access control) is that the two routes shouldn't be treated as concurrent.  So I wouldn't have QC 112 as concurrent with A-55/A-10, nor QC 335 with A-40 (which currently does show as concurrent).

There's consensus that QC 112 isn't concurrent with A-10/55, even though they share the same centerline. I put in extra shaping points on QC 112 to break the pseudo-concurrency.

We'll have to deal with QC 335/A-40 later, when I'm less swamped.

[si404]

again, you might want to double check point locations as many are tiny bits off OSM (though probably are more accurate). I'm not going to list any but the ones where they definitely are off.

QC116
 - missing exit 8 (or is it part of A-30, and so A-30 -> 8
 - QC227 is off OSM
 - RteVil is off OSM
 - CheVal is off OSM
 - QC255_N is off OSM
 - QC255_S is off OSM
 - BoulKin is off OSM
 - QC218_W is off OSM
 - QC218_E is off OSM

QC117 (only going to the end not concurrent with TCH)
 - add point for u-turn GSJ next to railway in St-Laurent
 - add point for Rue de Salaberry in Bois-Franc (leads to A-15 exit 4)
 - add point for Boul Notre-Dame in Chomedey (leads to A-15 exit 8
 - A-15(14) is off OSM
 - Add point for Ch Notre-Dame in Blainville (leads to A-15 exit 28)
 - is A15 Spur an actual thing? Could/Should it be added? Would A-15Spur be better as ToA-15?
 - is QC329_S off? OSM has it at Rue Demontigny, we have it at roundabout

QC122
 - add point at Boul Lem in Drummondville (leads to A-20 at exit 175)
 - add point at Rue Brock in Drummondville (leads to A-20 at exit 179)
 - QC259 is off OSM
 - A-955 is off OSM

QC125
 - add point for Rue Jarry in St Michel (leads to A-40 at exit 74)
 - add point for Ave de l'Esplanade in Mascouche (leads to A-25 at exit 27)
 - add point for Ch St Pierre in Mascouche (leads to A-25 at exit 30)
 - QC329 is off OSM
 - PNMontTre is off OSM

QC131
 - QC337 is off OSM
 - ParcLacTau -> ChStJos (given point is at road junction as well as park boundary, that label should be used instead)

QC132 - I'll come back to this nearly 1000 mile route

QC133
 - RueMon -> AvMon
 - QC202_E is off OSM
 - QC202_W is off OSM
 - QC227 is off OSM
 - QC225 is off OSM
 - add point for Chemin de la Grande-Ligne Est in Iberville (leads to A-35 exit 36)
 - RueMgrPha is off OSM
 - RueCon is off OSM
 - RueUni is off OSM
 - QC137 is off OSM
 - QC239 is off OSM

QC134
 - A-20 is not an intersection (on this road)
 - add points for GSJs on BoulTas north of QC112
 - QC112 -> QC112/116
 - add point for Boul Edouard in Greenfield Park (leads to QC116 exit 2)
 - add point for Av Victoria in Brossard (leads to A-20 exit 76)
 - add point for Boul de Rome in Brossard (leads to A-15 exit 53 and A30 exit 67)
 - add point for Rue St Henri in La Prairie (leads to A-15 exit 47)
 - add point for Boul St Jose in La Prairie (leads to A-15 exit 46)

QC136
 - does this extend to Av des Hotels (west end) and/or A-440 (east end)?

QC137
 - other than QC133 being off OSM this route is fine

QC138 (saving long route for another time)

QC139
 - QC222 is off OSM
 - A-55 is off OSM

[oscar]

Thanx, keep 'em coming. I'm on the road right now, and still have to catch up with most of your previous round of comments.

[si404]

QC141
 - exceeds limits between border and first shaping point (I didn't notice this until I saw the more obvious one further north and put the file in the editor. Other routes may have similar relatively small dips outside the red lines - probably worth checking)
 - massively exceeds limits between QC251 and QC147_S
 - QC143 off OSM
 - A-55 off OSM
 - ChGraCou off OSM and is RueGraCou

QC143
 - A-55 is off
 - is QC216 in the right place (indirect connection via Rue Laurier, rather than anything at the overbridge)?
 - add point for Rue Aberdeen/Rue des Grandes-Fourches Sud corner (heads to QC216 GSJ)
 - add point for Rue Frontenac GSJ
 - RueTer off OSM
 - check route stays within red lines
 - ChMoo -> RteMoo?

QC147
 - ChStaBal -> ChSta?

QC148
 - ON/QC border off OSM
 - Ch4thLine -> Ch4eRang
 - add point for RueLau in Angers (leads to A-50 exit 159)
 - add point for RueGeo in Masson (leads to A-50 exit 165)
 - add point for MteeFas in Fassett (leads to A-50 exit 216)
 - add point for ChKil in Grenville-sur-la-Rouge (leads to A-50 exit 233)
 - add point for RuePri in Grenville (leads to point on QC344)
 - QC158_End -> AveBet?
 - add point for BoulInd in Saint-Eustache (leads to A-640 exit ?
 - add point for Boul Dagenais Ouest in Lavel-Ouest (leads to A-13 exit 17)

QC153
 - ChBou -> RteBou
 - A-55(211) off OSM, and drop exit number (only intersection with A-55)
 - add point for Rue Belgoville (links to A-55 exit 216)?
 - ToA-55/155 -> ToQC155 (or extend A-55?)

QC155
 - A-55 off OSM
 - QC153 -> ToQC153?
 - shaping point north of ChQuaVen is off OSM by quite a bit
 - ChLacSle -> ChLacGro
 - check rural points (ChQuaVen, ZEC***, ChGag, etc) locations and names
 - LanChe -> ChLan (and off OSM)
 - RteEcl off OSM
 - RteErm off OSM
 - shaping point north of 6eRang is off OSM by quite a bit

QC157
 - add point for Rue des Praries (links to A-40 exit 205)
 - BoulInd -> RueParcInd
 - BoulCapJV -> AveCapVei

QC158
 - is ChArc in the right place (should it be at link road, rather than overpass)?
 - add point for Rang St Charles in Saint-Thomas (links to A-31 at exit 7)

QC159
 - route fine beyond some points being slightly off OSM

[froggie]

QC143
 - is QC216 in the right place (indirect connection via Rue Laurier, rather than anything at the overbridge)?

It's a one-quadrant interchange (if one ignores that traffic can't turn left from westbound 216), so basically yes.

The basic routing for QC143 is correct.  It is signed (and IIRC shapefiles confirm), that it continues on Rue Wellington north of 216 and uses Rue Aberdeen to connect to Rue des Grandes-Fourches.

- add point for Rue Aberdeen/Rue des Grandes-Fourches Sud corner (heads to QC216 GSJ)

The route that trucks are directed to use to access QC216 (which in some ways is also signed as a truck route for QC112).  Concur that it'd be a valid point.

[si404]

The basic routing for QC143 is correct.  It is signed (and IIRC shapefiles confirm), that it continues on Rue Wellington north of 216 and uses Rue Aberdeen to connect to Rue des Grandes-Fourches.

Indeed - I was going to comment on it, but went and checked on GMSV and saw the signs follow our routing, not OSM, so I didn't mention it.

However, the route may go outside the red lines elsewhere...