NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector

[mapcat]

As far as I can tell this is a controlled access freeway, with several lettered exits (A thru H, though C & D seem to be missing) and mileage signs similar to the ACE. It's approximately 2.1 miles long. Is it worth including in usasf? I can add it if it seems worthwhile.

[yakra]

Hey, why not.
Although, a nitpick: at-grade intersection @ NJ187? See below...

It appears to be secret route 446X, and is classified in the NJDOT shapefiles as ROUTE_SUBT = 4, which is used for non-Interstate freeways.
I'll grab this, and claim NJ while I'm at it; I've been meaning to do so for a while.
I'll also make a couple other edits for things I noticed while checking out the HDX, shapefiles, and GMSV.

Interesting -- AtlBriCon exits off itself. At a left exit. The roadway north to exits F-G-H is considered a ramp, per the shapefiles and SLD.
Mainline AtlBriCon intersects NJ187 & US30 at their respective AtlBriCon points.

[mapcat]

Hey, why not.
Although, a nitpick: at-grade intersection @ NJ187? See below...

It appears to be secret route 446X, and is classified in the NJDOT shapefiles as ROUTE_SUBT = 4, which is used for non-Interstate freeways.
I'll grab this, and claim NJ while I'm at it; I've been meaning to do so for a while.
I'll also make a couple other edits for things I noticed while checking out the HDX, shapefiles, and GMSV.

Interesting -- AtlBriCon exits off itself. At a left exit. The roadway north to exits F-G-H is considered a ramp, per the shapefiles and SLD.
Mainline AtlBriCon intersects NJ187 & US30 at their respective AtlBriCon points.

Hmmm, that's not how it's signed (MM1.6) (quasi-MM2.1)

[yakra]

Oh boy. More TM Indigestion. Thanks NJDOT!

I'll also make a couple other edits for things I noticed while checking out the HDX, shapefiles, and GMSV.

Done as a separate pull request

The roadway north to exits F-G-H is considered a ramp, per the shapefiles and SLD.
Mainline AtlBriCon intersects NJ187 & US30 at their respective AtlBriCon points.

That is, according to the  NJ_Roads_shp dataset listed on the credits page...
• N to NJ87/187: ROUTE_SUBT = 8 (ramps)
• E to US30: ROUTE_SUBT = 4 (toll hwys)
I went and downloaded New_Jersey_Road_Centerlines, found here, and it was the other way around...
• N to NJ87/187: SYMBOLTYPE = 100 (toll hwys)
• E to US30: SYMBOLTYPE = 108 (ramps)
In case of a tie, I'd look to the SLDs to be a tie-breaker. That, and I'd put a bit more stock in the shapefiles directly from NJDOT anyway.

Hmmm, that's not how it's signed (MM1.6) (quasi-MM2.1)

Less signed so much as mileposted, though I'll acknowledge the "Connector" in the shield in the first image; that's a bit troublesome...
Signed, though, I'd think of as something more like this.
The mile markers, I suppose I can't completely compare this -- mileage counting up from zero at two different places, toward a merge... it's more of a PA I-76/276 thing. There's evidence, from some of the docs & diagrams I've seen, that in some ways the whole complex may be thought of as the "connector". The exit letters, I can handwave away as just keeping the letters going where's there's actually more ramps to be lettered -- akin to those places where Exit 42 leaves the mainline, then splits into 42-A/B/C, etc.
More support that this stuff's mainline & that's stuff's ramps can be found in the ramps SLDs.

Perhaps most troublesome are the mile markers posted on the ramps, which mapcat linked above, while none are posted on (what I'm convinced is) the mainline.
That's some evidence tipping the scales in the one direction, but IMO there's a bit more evidence to tip scales overall in the opposite direction. Thoughs?

Code: [Select]

AtlCityExpy http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.362495&lon=-74.440752
A http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.361801&lon=-74.442254
B http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.365467&lon=-74.444218
D http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.374740&lon=-74.441981
E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373902&lon=-74.438092
F http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373844&lon=-74.435753
NJ187 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.372227&lon=-74.432413
US30 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.370743&lon=-74.430785

[mapcat]

I see your points...not a simple one, certainly. Your file makes sense.

[yakra]

I wish things would be simpler than they are a lot of the time.
No one else has weighed in here yet... Shall I go ahead & add the route above?

[Duke87]

My preference would be to route it as signed rather than according to the NJDOT shapefiles. Consider not just those milemarkers but the matter of what is signed as an exit versus what isn't. Someone attempting to clinch the road based purely on what they see while driving will follow the roadway towards exits G/H.

I will also note that although it has a secret route number and is present in the shapefiles the road is not maintained by NJDOT - it, like the Atlantic City Expressway proper, is maintained by SJTA. The discrepancy between signage and shapefile is likely the result of the two different agencies having different interpretations as to what the mainline is.

[yakra]

And dangit if you don't make a good argument there too...

Stupid Truck Routes...

[yakra]

Dredging this up from the beginning of the year: http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2304.msg8664#msg8664


Still debating it, or waiting for clarification? Or have you decided it's just not worth it?

Mostly decided it's not worth it, without a clear official indication of what the primary route of the thing really is. I kicked it down into the "Very low priority" category on my ToDo list.
I did think about this a couple days ago though... My current thinking is as you & Duke87 have suggested, following the mile markers and exit numbers northward. With the differences in NB/SB alignment, the way the ramps all come together, and the interplay with NJ87, plotting the points could be a bit of an exercise.

I toyed with the idea of adding the E-W connector as a separate file as plotted in the code above, but that presents a few complications:
• No clear city to name the segment after, as the whole complex is within Atlantic City
• Adds a road with at at-grade junction into the United States Select Named Freeways set
• Point placement for a graph connection to the mainline N-S route could get tricky, though it still looks workable.

[mapcat]

I drove this northbound last Saturday and it's clear from the mileposts and exits that the route is intended to go from Fairmount Ave to NJ 87. I don't think the E-W connector is anything more than an exit ramp. That road is signed "Brigantine Connector" at intersections, while the expressway is signed "Atlantic City Expressway Connector" at the entrance and on mileposts.

[cl94]

I'm going to revive this from a chat a few of us had over on AARoads. The SJTA source (who maintains the road) has the Connector ending at NJ 87. One of the authoritative sources over there (Alps) confirms this; he also confirmed that the SLDs are often wrong and that NJDOT likely guessed for 446X.

[US 89]

I was also part of that chat, and I'm going to agree with this. The route is clearly mileposted and the exits are numbered such that it goes north and ends at NJ 87.

[yakra]

Here's what I've got:

nj.nj087.wpt
US30 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373608&lon=-74.439714
AtlBriCon_S +AtlBriCon http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.374800&lon=-74.437923
AtlBriCon(G) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.377273&lon=-74.431818
NJ187 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.377778&lon=-74.430651
AtlBriCon_N  http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.381941&lon=-74.427835
VerAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.383607&lon=-74.424989
NJ87_U http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.387984&lon=-74.417192

nj.atlbricon.wpt
AtlCityExpy http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.362495&lon=-74.440752
A http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.361801&lon=-74.442254
B http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.365467&lon=-74.444218
D http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.374740&lon=-74.441981
E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373961&lon=-74.438585
F http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373844&lon=-74.435753
G http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.377273&lon=-74.431818
NJ87 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.381941&lon=-74.427835

If the attachment works, it's a view of the resulting graph.
Yes, there's a missing connection where the mainlines cross outside the north end of the tunnel. As wonky as the roads are to plot in this area, I couldn't quite justify it.
Never fear though, there's a connection one would-be point NE, at AtlBriCon/NJ87. That should be good enough for algorithm labs, and for the intrepid Browsers of Highways to work with .

[mapcat]

Looks good to me.

[Duke87]

Looks graphically tangly to me. But functionally correct.

Side note though, is there a reason the BalAve endpoint for the AtlCityExpy mainline is midblock between Baltic and Arcitc rather than at Baltic?