NC: Named Freeway Question

[mikeandkristie]

I was wondering how come there is an entry in Raleigh for NC RalChaExpy (AKA Wade Ave.) which connects I-440 and I-40 but there aren't entries for other named freeways in NC.  The All American Freeway in Fayetteville and the Joseph M Bryan Blvd (non I-73 part) in Greensboro come to mind.

Mike

[mapcat]

Possibly the All American Fwy is out because part of it is within Fort Bragg?

[Duke87]

The name of the system is "United States Select Named Freeways"

No one claims it to be an exhaustive list, it's just some that were deemed important enough to include. 

Wade Ave serves as a connector road between two interstates, whereas the other two freeways you've named are dead-end spurs to nowhere in particular, so they're less important and probably didn't make the cut for that reason.


I have no inherent objection to seeing either added with the caveat that the portion of the All-American Freeway behind the gate at Fort Bragg should not be included on the grounds that it is not open to the general public.

[dfilpus]

This goes back to the original creation of the Named Freeways System back in Clinched Highway Mapping.
Originally, the project only included Interstate Highways. One of the early expansions was to add Select Numbered Freeways and Named Freeways. These were added to include freeways that added connections to and within the Interstate Network. So, one of the criteria was that a Select Freeway connect to the Interstate System. At the time, neither the All American Freeway nor Joseph Bryan Boulevard did not connect to any Interstate, so they were not included. In the time since, those two freeways have been connected to the system, so they could be added.
The Select Numbered Freeway system has been deprecated, since all of the routes are part of the US Highway and State Highway systems.  The Select Named Freeway system has been ignored. Tim, the creator of Clinched Highway Mapping, managed the system, but didn't add many new routes. I think he was tired of the arguments about what routes should or shouldn't be added.

[oscar]

AIUI, the All-American Freeway is state-maintained, including the part within Fort Bragg (the freeway itself might be open to the public, but with access restrictions once you've left the freeway -- kind of like I-5 through the Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base, which has one exit serving only destinations on the base). But AAF's route number is in the 1xxx secondary routes, which are not included in the existing NC state route set.

I think we make occasional additions to the named freeways set, subject to interest by the state's maintainer and input from other team members. One unnumbered freeway in California (the Westside Parkway west of Bakersfield, which may become part of a rerouted CA 58) has been suggested for addition, and I'm leaning to adding that route. I would be cool with adding the All-American Freeway in NC as well, but that's not my call, especially since it intersects with several existing routes, and AAF maintenance would have to be coordinated with the other routes.

[si404]

The Select Numbered Freeway system has been deprecated, since all of the routes are part of the US Highway and State Highway systems.

Not quite all, but certainly it's is on its way out.

I think we make occasional additions to the named freeways set, subject to interest by the state's maintainer and input from other team members.

Indeed - I've added a couple since the move to TM.

I have no problem with the proposed additions in NC - but it's obviously that state's maintainer's call.

Looking on GMSV at the All-American Freeway, there's no GMSV beyond the gate and there's not really an outlet beyond the base that you can say you are going to. I'm not sure you can drive that northernmost section without a valid reason to be on the base - and you have to stop at the visitors centre and have your car searched. There's u-turns and a visitors centre before the ID-check (and the GMSV car clearly got through the ID-check, just didn't take images beyond it and presumably used the u-turn after the gate). But the base bit is only a part of the wider route.

[dfilpus]

The 82nd Airborne Museum on Fort Bragg is open to the public. If you do not have a DoD ID, you stop at the welcome center for check-in and search. The defined route to the museum clinches the rest of the All American Freeway/Parkway. This is a valid reason for driving the road.
At one time, the All American Freeway was proposed as NC 555, but the proposal was never implemented.

[mikeandkristie]

Wow, thanks for all of the detailed back story.  I'm good either way everybody decides, I was just curious.  While Fayetteville isn't too far from the Raleigh area we haven't really gone into Fayetteville, just passing by it on I-95.  But, I did notice that the AAF wasn't highlighted when I was looking at sections we could drive along in Fayetteville as time allows either heading out or coming back on our southern trips.

Mike

[oscar]

The 82nd Airborne Museum on Fort Bragg is open to the public. If you do not have a DoD ID, you stop at the welcome center for check-in and search. The defined route to the museum clinches the rest of the All American Freeway/Parkway. This is a valid reason for driving the road.

Yesterday, while passing through Fayetteville on my way to clinching US 401, I decided spur-of-the-moment to take care of the north end of the AAF. I didn't have a chance to research the military museums on the base, especially to make sure they were open when I wanted to enter the base. So I just used the lamest possible excuse, that while I was in town I wanted to drive the AAF including the part on the base. That worked, and got me the visitor pass to enter the base.

Neither me nor my car were searched. However, the check-in process took about 15 minutes, longer than it took me to clinch the AAF once I got on base. Check-in included my being photographed and fingerprinted, having to provide my Social Security number (something that would trip up non-U.S. residents), and a quickie criminal background check. Other military bases I've visited didn't make me go through all that.

Two other tips -- the military seems to hate unapproved photography of their facilities (which is probably why GMSV has no imagery within Fort Bragg), and radar detectors. Best to hide your camera and detector in the trunk before you check in.

[froggie]

^ On that note, as long as at least one person in the vehicle is military (to include retired), and they aren't doing random vehicle checks (which can and do snag even active duty personnel), one only needs a government-issued photo ID at most bases and doesn't have to go through the check-in rigamarole...

(moral of the story:  take advantage of your friends! 😉)

[oscar]

^ On that note, as long as at least one person in the vehicle is military (to include retired), and they aren't doing random vehicle checks (which can and do snag even active duty personnel), one only needs a government-issued photo ID at most bases and doesn't have to go through the check-in rigamarole...

(moral of the story:  take advantage of your friends! 😉)

I was indeed taken advantage of, back when I had a military dependent ID (expired when I turned 21), which sped things up when some friends needed to pick up another one at some minor military facility southeast of Boston. They didn't know I had the ID until I pulled it out, but they were appreciative nonetheless.

My mother had a lifetime dependent ID. She couldn't drive, but every time I visited her, I always took her shopping at the nearby Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base.

That said, people tend to overestimate the difficulty of visiting a military base, even without a military ID. Area 51 and Fort Knox, OK. But others are less visitor-unfriendly.

[michih]

Conclusion? I guess we don't wanna change anything and can mark this topic solved?

[froggie]

Given that both now connect to existing/future Interstates, I don't see why they couldn't be included now.

[mapmikey]

created a new file for this from US 401 Bus to I-295.

incidentally I wouldn't mind doing the 10xx routes someday as a secondary system...

[oscar]

The new file is in the HB. However, the north endpoint should be labeled NC295 or I-295Fut, not I-295, and should be synched to the corresponding point (21A) in the NC295 and I-295FutFay files.