Greece Ethniki Odos (grceo)

[michih]

Si said that the system is ready for review

http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?sys=grceo

[panda80]

I would like to start with the review. Are there other sources for the system other than OSM? In the sources and credits there are just sources for the motorways in Greece.

[si404]

It's all global sources like map tiles, wikipedia, wegenwiki, etc

[panda80]

GRC EO1Sch
New WP at road Avlona-Skala Oropou


GRC EO1Lam
Reposition WP Pet to the actual intersection (there is no possibility to leave the road where the WP is now)

GRC EO1
According to OSM is the end point in the centre of Leptokarya, not at A1(75)

GRC EO1Kat
New WP at road Eginiou-Riakion


GRC EO2
I couldn’t find any evidence that there is a EO111 in Thessaloniki.
Check the WP name EO4a. Couldn’t find any national road EO4a. If there is any, it should be included to the HB.
Reposition OdosFlo
Reposition Vry
Reposition A29 to the roundabout
Reposition ALB/GRC

GRC EO2Kom
According to OSM, the start point should be OdosLagLag, the section between A2 and OdosLagLag is part of A25.
Rename A2(27) to ToA2(27). You can also drive to other destinations at the traffic lights on the  stretch to the motorway.
Reposition A2(32B) and A2(33A) to the actual intersection (this are not full interchanges, is similar with A2_PO).
New WP TosEul (motorway access to A2)

GRC EO3
New WP at the intersection with Thiva-Kallithea?
Rename OdosAgiAth to ParThi
Reposition GRC/MKD
OSM shows a branch through Kozani. Should it be added to HB?

GRC EO5
Reposition Vas
Rename OdosArtSal to OdosArtKor
Clinchable WP instead of +X276921 and Reposition to the parking entrance (important castle there)
Reposition A5(12) to the bridge
Reposition A5(4)
Rename And to Ant

Done until EO5.

[panda80]

GRC EO6
Rename KatoZal to BroZal
Rename A2( to A2(7A)
New WP at Kalampaka-Meteora road (east of Kalampaka, access to the well known and very touristic monasteries of Meteora)
Rename A3 to ToA3 (there is a possibility to go also to other directions, at the roundabout)

GRC EO7
Rename A5 to EO9A

GRC EO8
Rename A8_Ele to EO8A and add EO8A (Ele) to the HB. According to OSM just the last short part till A6 is designated as A8.

GRC EO9
New WP EleVer in Patras
New WP MetKor, at the intersection with the road towards Koroni, just before Metsoni.

GRC EO12
Rename A25_Lef to A25

GRC EO16A
According to OSM, there is also a EO16B, parralel with EO16A on the last part.

GRC EO18
According to OSM EO18 has another Route, much more inland.
On your route:
Reposition Pan
New WP in Karteri (access to A2(1A))
Rename Arc to SumEthOdos and add it to the HB, as the link to EO21 is definitely a national road.
Rename Nic to EO18AST and add EO18AST to the HB (the link to the EO21)

GRC EO20
According to OSM, the intersection with EO6 and start point of EO20 is much more into the city center of Ioannina. You also drafted EO6 like this.
I would put a clinchable WP instead of +X593811, at the intersection with the yellow road.

Done until EO20.

[panda80]

GRC EO21
See EO18 for the 2 links between EO18 and EO21, which are designated as national roads.

GRC EO26
Reposition KraEla

GRC EO38
Route seems to be on the bypass of Makrakouni.
According to OSM, another routing in Karpenisi.
Reposition Ste

GRC EO39
OSM shows the parallel, more important road south of Tripoli, also as EO39.
Reposition Kro

GRC EO51
Reposition GRC/BGR

GRC EO72
According to OSM ist he start point EO74, not EO7.

GRC EO73
OSM shows also a parallel route as EO73 north of Mytilini

GRC EO82
Route outside red lines between +X699678 and Kef
New WP at the start of A7

GRC EO85
Are you sure it goes until the WP End?

GRC EO87
Apparently it goes a little bit further, to the next roundabout

GRC EO108, EO111
Cannot find evidence that this routes really exist.

Review finished.

[si404]

All done, except for:

GRC EO3
OSM shows a branch through Kozani. Should it be added to HB?

It's the mainline - rerouted EO3 that way (truncating EO20), but left E65 on bypass.

GRC EO7
Rename A5 to EO9A

No, as it meets the A5 there, even if it is just a tiny stub (with the EO9a not having been upgraded).

GRC EO16A
According to OSM, there is also a EO16B, parralel with EO16A on the last part.

I can find no evidence of its reality.

GRC EO18
According to OSM EO18 has another Route, much more inland.

So this is a right mess. Apparently the E55 follows the EO18, and the E55 certainly takes the coastal route. Some tile maps show the inland route as EO19, which doesn't exist. There's the EO102 along the same coastal corridor, though Greek Wikipedia says it is slower as it is a less good road going along the coast, assuming EO18 takes the E55 route. There's also the EO18 reaching the Albanian border.

What I did: convert the E55 route (and the shorter link to the EO21) to EO102. Rerouted EO18 via the inland route to Albania.

Rename Nic to EO18AST and add EO18AST to the HB (the link to the EO21)

I don't think even in the most anti-German Greeks, they are being forced to speak German! . OSM (and Greek Wikipedia/1998 Greek Goverment list of roads) has it as EO102β, so I have it as EO102B.

GRC EO39
OSM shows the parallel, more important road south of Tripoli, also as EO39.

Majority of tile mapping sources have it as an unnumbered route (including OSM other than a short segment). Rerouted E961 over it, left EO39 through the towns.

GRC EO85
Are you sure it goes until the WP End?

Yes, from description on Greek Wikipedia, and on ESRI tile mapping

GRC EO108, EO111
Cannot find evidence that this routes really exist.

Greek wikipedia, citing a Ministerial Decree (see also EO102).

[michih]

GRC EO39
OSM shows the parallel, more important road south of Tripoli, also as EO39.

Majority of tile mapping sources have it as an unnumbered route (including OSM other than a short segment). Rerouted E961 over it, left EO39 through the towns.

What's the reason (source) to reroute E961? Do you just assume that it might been rerouted when A71 was opened in 2016?

[neroute2]

This appears to be northbound on the maybe-E961 between waypoint "Lef" and the north end of the ΣΚΟΥΡΑ/Skoura bypass. I don't know where to look for a route designation.

https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/I5pJnpH6IdJp4-6iBFBxMA
Also Mapillary has some 2017 photos, but again I don't know where to look. The part of the "better" road north of Skoura looks like it's not so great.

[si404]

Do you just assume that it might been rerouted when A71 was opened in 2016?

Yes - like every other country, save Romania, if there's a better parallel road (I think the A71/A7 route is a bit of a long-way-around), the E road will take it. See also, wrt Greece, various bypasses and the like - the E65 taking the EO108 while the E03 goes through the city is an example.

[michih]

Do you just assume that it might been rerouted when A71 was opened in 2016?

Yes - like every other country, save Romania, if there's a better parallel road (I think the A71/A7 route is a bit of a long-way-around), the E road will take it. See also, wrt Greece, various bypasses and the like - the E65 taking the EO108 while the E03 goes through the city is an example.

Sorry, I thought that E961 is via A71 but it isn't. Pic from A71 opening in April 2016:


You've only rerouted it south of A71 but the video from December 2016 also shows that it's not signed...
But I could also not find any E sign through Sparti on GSV from 2012/2014...

[si404]

You've only rerouted it south of A71 but the video from December 2016 also shows that it's not signed...
But I could also not find any E sign through Sparti on GSV from 2012/2014...

I believe like several other countries (Germany, IIRC), Greece is really bad at signing E Roads off the motorway network.

And that it's got gaps left for an E Road number, but not used, on the A71, suggests that I was right not to move it onto the freeways (which do add a lot of mileage: Tripoli - Sparta is 57.1km on the EO39 and 79.3km on the A7/A71 route, with the non-freeway route being 4 minutes quicker).

[michih]

I believe like several other countries (Germany, IIRC)

I only remember E532 in Austria. E532 is only signed in Germany up to the border.

[si404]

I only remember E532 in Austria.

You mean the one that isn't official and was someone going "we can't have a dead end of the E road network" so edited various sourced to take it beyond the border?

There's definitely one or two countries that are bad at signing E roads off the freeway network, and I'm treating Greece as one of them.

Walloonia seems to have this problem (Flanders has the only non-Autosnelweg E road was the E34 on the future A11 that now is A11 so it's hard to say) of E roads only being signed when on Autoroutes. I had gathered it was similar for Germany and the handful of routes not on the Autobahn network (which doesn't include the E532).

[michih]

You mean the one that isn't official and was someone going "we can't have a dead end of the E road network" so edited various sourced to take it beyond the border?

?

Walloonia seems to have this problem

yep, Wallonia has this issue and I think there was an issue in NL, The Hague. Germany does usually perfectly sign E roads on non-Autobahns. I don't remember any exception in Germany. Only lack of GSV makes it difficult...


It's fine to me keeping E961 as-is.

No objections to activate grceo once the two relevant data check errors are fixed or marked FP.