RI: RI 51 not in database

[drebbin37]

I'm relatively new to the site, but I'm wondering why RI 51 is not included in the database.  Like many RI state highways, the signage leaves a lot to be desired, but here's what I saw while driving in Cranston today:

I was driving on RI 12 westbound and saw immediately after the intersection with RI 5, the road was co-signed as RI 12 West and RI 51 West.  A few blocks later, there is signage showing RI 51 continuing straight on Phenix Ave., while RI 12 turns right on Scituate Ave.  I followed Phenix Ave. only as far as Natick Ave. to get to RI 37, and there were no additional signs for RI 51 through there.  I highly doubt there are any other signs for RI 51 along Phenix Ave. all the way down to RI 115 in West Warwick.  I know there aren't any signs for RI 51 from either direction of RI 115.

[yakra]

It was left out due to being unsigned. Looks like we may need to revisit this.

[neroute2]

It's also signed eastbound on RI 12.

[yakra]

So, there's signage indicating the start of the route at one end, and from there the trail goes cold.
Nothing at the other end, or at the major turns along the way.
Grumble. Ping mapcat -- how would you have handled this if it were KY or wherever?

[mapcat]

What do the shapefiles say?

Where it's unsigned, most GMSV seems to be 6+ years old. Is there a chance it's been signed there recently? Some of those signs on RI 12 are new.

And there's this TO sign. Not sure what that typically means in RI. I don't know how bad RIDOT is at signage.

I'm generally inclined to include routes that are signed somewhere, as long as the DOT provides some acknowledgement of their existence.

[neroute2]

I don't know how bad RIDOT is at signage.

What you don't know can't hurt you 

The RIDOT pavement management log is the one real source that has all the routes, mostly jibing with signage. Here's the page for 51: http://web.archive.org/web/20040712000154/http://www.usroute1.net/routelog/ri51.pdf

[mapcat]

The RIDOT pavement management log is the one real source that has all the routes, mostly jibing with signage. Here's the page for 51: http://web.archive.org/web/20040712000154/http://www.usroute1.net/routelog/ri51.pdf

So all we have to work with here is an 18-year old document that currently only exists in the Internet Archive? Yikes. Glad it's not my state!

[Duke87]

RIDOT is notoriously bad about route signage.

The other thing about RI 51 is that it is entirely town-maintained... so RIDOT would not logically be putting any signs on it, only pointing to it from other routes they maintain.


It should be noted that RI 51 was originally included in usari. It was deleted after I reported a couple years ago that it was, as observed in the field at the time, completely unsigned. As has been noted in this thread, the signage that is there now is new (i.e. was not there when the route was previously removed from the HB).

IMO the fact that there is now a nonzero number of signs means RI 51 should be added back in. It may be signed poorly, but so are a lot of routes in Rhode Island.

[yakra]

What do the shapefiles say?

RTNO = 51. Except, oddly, this bit.

I'm generally inclined to include routes that are signed somewhere, as long as the DOT provides some acknowledgement of their existence.

<Nod> That's my recollection from when you did usaky, hence my asking.

The other thing about RI 51 is that it is entirely town-maintained... so RIDOT would not logically be putting any signs on it, only pointing to it from other routes they maintain.

How about 115 at 51's S terminus?
I don't have this same info; what's your source?
If http://dot.ri.gov/documents/maps/State_Highway_Routes_Map.pdf is any indication, state maintained I gather?

IMO the fact that there is now a nonzero number of signs means RI 51 should be added back in. It may be signed poorly, but so are a lot of routes in Rhode Island.

Agreed, I'm leaning that way as well. Even if feeling slightly icky about it.

[drebbin37]

Wow, what a mess.  Now I appreciate the effort you all put into this.  Thank you.

I was also stumped yesterday when trying to find RI 103A in East Providence.  I saw no signs for it coming up RI 103 from Barrington, but I'm learning that this is pretty typical in the Ocean State.

I'll be happy when I finally clinch RI.  Hopefully the other New England states won't be this difficult!

[Duke87]

The other thing about RI 51 is that it is entirely town-maintained... so RIDOT would not logically be putting any signs on it, only pointing to it from other routes they maintain.

How about 115 at 51's S terminus?
I don't have this same info; what's your source?
If http://dot.ri.gov/documents/maps/State_Highway_Routes_Map.pdf is any indication, state maintained I gather?

That map is consistent with my assertion - none of 51 is shown on it.

The segment of 115 that 51 ends at is indeed state maintained... no there are no shields there (or at least were not a couple years ago which is the last time either I or GMSV passed by). Regardless, Rhode Island. Not the only junction in the state where signage is missing...

[froggie]

I'm generally inclined to include routes that are signed somewhere, as long as the DOT provides some acknowledgement of their existence.

With exceptions, of course.  Because by this logic, VT 119 doesn't exist (VTrans doesn't recognize it in their route log or shapefiles)...though that might change when the 119 river bridge gets relocated to the south.

I was also stumped yesterday when trying to find RI 103A in East Providence.  I saw no signs for it coming up RI 103 from Barrington, but I'm learning that this is pretty typical in the Ocean State.

IIRC (from when I drove through there in October), there are no signs at its junctions with 103, but there is at least one reassurance sign on the route itself, though I don't remember where.

[drebbin37]

IIRC (from when I drove through there in October), there are no signs at its junctions with 103, but there is at least one reassurance sign on the route itself, though I don't remember where.

Ah, you're right.  On Street View I see there was one in the eastbound direction just upon entering 103A.  I was traveling west and missed it.

[yakra]

Phew, one less thing to have to worry about.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/2578