Author Topic: frad: France Routes Départementales  (Read 35103 times)

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Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #150 on: May 08, 2020, 01:28:07 pm »
Essonne Routes Départementales (fraidf91) has recently been activated.

The first system in Auvergne-Rhone-Alpes will be in preview with the next site update: fraarad73 - Savoie Routes Départementales.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #151 on: May 18, 2020, 02:54:01 pm »
Hauts-de-Seine Routes Départementales (fraidf92) will be activated with the next site update.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #152 on: May 30, 2020, 01:21:22 pm »
Seine-Saint-Denis Routes Départementales (fraidfd93) will be activated with the next site update.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2020, 12:36:59 pm »
Val-de-Marne Routes Départementales (fraidfd94) will be activated with the next site update.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2020, 03:21:08 am »
Val-d'Oise Routes Départementales (fraidfd95) will be activated with the next site update.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #155 on: August 21, 2020, 04:29:59 pm »
The first system in Bourgogne-Franche-Comte will be in preview with the next site update: frabfcd25 - Doubs Routes Départementales.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #156 on: September 06, 2020, 06:46:41 am »
I develop the departement systems in ARA, BFC, GES, HDF, IDF and NOR. 7 systems are active now, 16 in preview and 23 still to be drafted. That means, I have drafted 50% of my systems now which took me one year. It is about 25% of all departements.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: Region borders
« Reply #157 on: October 19, 2020, 01:36:46 pm »
I have a little problem. I've strictly separated routes at region borders but it appears that the maintenance - by departements - does often not change exactly at the region (and departement) border.

For instance, D934 at the border between IDF and GES:

https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=fraidf.d093477
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=frages.d093451vil
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=fraidf.d093477mar

The maintenance changes only once at SeM/Mar http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.759301&lon=3.408304 (region signs + pavement change)

Actual drafting is:

fraidf.d093477.wpt

...
D108 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.763267&lon=3.386407
IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.761362&lon=3.396980


frages.d093451vil.wpt

IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.761362&lon=3.396980
D119 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.756238&lon=3.420323
GES/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.754571&lon=3.425862


fraidf.d093477mar.wpt

GES/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.754571&lon=3.425862
IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.751402&lon=3.436366

frages.d093451.wpt

IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.751402&lon=3.436366
D246 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.747295&lon=3.449986


I suggest to change it to (green):

fraidf.d093477.wpt

...
D108 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.763267&lon=3.386407
IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.761362&lon=3.396980

New wpt file:
frages.d09345177vil.wpt (route maintained by departement Seine-et-Marne / 77 (IDF region) but in GES region)

IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.761362&lon=3.396980
SeM/Mar http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.759301&lon=3.408304


frages.d093451vil.wpt

SeM/Mar http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.759301&lon=3.408304
D119 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.756238&lon=3.420323
GES/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.754571&lon=3.425862


New wpt file:
fraidf.d09347751mar.wpt (route maintained by departement Marne / 51 (GES region) but in IDF region)

GES/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.754571&lon=3.425862
IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.751402&lon=3.436366

frages.d093451.wpt

IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.751402&lon=3.436366
D246 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.747295&lon=3.449986


All together for WPT editor check:
Code: [Select]
D108 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.763267&lon=3.386407
IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.761362&lon=3.396980
SeM/Mar http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.759301&lon=3.408304
D119 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.756238&lon=3.420323
GES/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.754571&lon=3.425862
IDF/GES http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.751402&lon=3.436366
D246 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.747295&lon=3.449986




Thoughts?


I'll go through all my French regions to check the actual positions if there are no objections or better ideas.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #158 on: November 08, 2020, 10:05:46 am »
I'll go through all my French regions to check the actual positions if there are no objections or better ideas.

I've checked the region borders of IDF (active systems), HDF and NOR so far. Some IDF routes are in Si-land (CVL region), see notes on Github:

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4298
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4299

I have not checked whether I've changed border wpts in IDF which are also used by CVL wpt files not yet processed. I could check it.... or we wait till they are in HB and check NMPs etc.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 10:09:12 am by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #159 on: November 08, 2020, 01:53:17 pm »
Remaing region borders of my regions done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4300

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #160 on: November 26, 2020, 09:01:53 am »
To be defined:

1. How to deal with M routes (metropole routes) which have recently been introduced? e.g. Nancy.
They are former D routes but not yet visible on OSM, GM nor GSV. I've still drafted them as D routes but we need a way before activation. I just found the first(!) route in OSM Clermont-FD now.
Should they be part of the D route system? Own system per city? Own system per region?

HDF has GSV coverage from September 2020. I found first M signs, e.g. here. The "D" was just replaced by "M" and the signs are blue with white numbers instead of yellow and black. That means, D7 is (partially) M7 now, D945 is (partially) M945 etc. OSM seems to be up-to-date.

How to deal with it - own system(s)?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 09:05:07 am by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #161 on: November 26, 2020, 09:46:55 am »
I found this for the M routes of Lille, departement Nord (59):
- csv, json, geojson + shapefile
- map

Offline si404

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #162 on: November 26, 2020, 11:26:02 am »
HDF has GSV coverage from September 2020.
That's recent.
Quote
How to deal with it - own system(s)?
Seems sensible given the different sign colours - so the Lille Metropole ones would be frahdfm59, with the Nord department roads frahdfd59.

Lyon Metropole is it's own department (69M), but you can easily just have it as fraaram69 with Rhone (formerly 69, now 69D) as fraarad69. Métropole d'Aix-Marseille-Provence and Métropole du Grand Paris are special metropoles with more powers (but that speciality doesn't seem to be relevant, and Grand Paris seems wholly unconcerned with M roads).

The standard Metropoles are: Bordeaux Métropole, Brest Métropole, Clermont Auvergne Métropole, Dijon Métropole, Grenoble-Alpes Métropole, Métropole européenne de Lille, Metz Métropole, Montpellier Méditerranée Métropole, Métropole du Grand Nancy, Nantes Métropole, Métropole‎ Nice Côte d'Azur, Orléans Métropole, Rennes Métropole, Métropole Rouen Normandie, Saint-Étienne Métropole, Eurométropole de Strasbourg, Métropole Toulon Provence Méditerranée, Toulouse Métropole, Tours Métropole Val de Loire.

Most metropoles don't seem to have replaced D roads within their borders yet, even if they have created some M roads - but some have done the lot (with a very simple change of prefix and sign colour rather than making a new numbering system), and that seems to be the aim (at least for the normal ones).

And as a totally unrelated aside - this is far less of a mess (other than for road numbering) than English local government. Today's post-lockdown 'what is in what tier' document was a messy mish-mash of items: City Regions, Combined Authorities, Metropolitan Counties, Ceremonial Counties, Non-Metropolitan Counties, Unitary Authorities, counties that were abolished 24 years ago (which they got the name of wrong as well), groups of authorities that they decided to lump together that have no formal link, and three districts that were abolished and combined into one last year that were listed separately.

Offline michih

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #163 on: November 26, 2020, 02:21:55 pm »
Seems sensible given the different sign colours - so the Lille Metropole ones would be frahdfm59, with the Nord department roads frahdfd59.

Thanks. I was not sure because I had too less info. But when I saw the map of Lille area... yes, it makes pretty much sense!

Most metropoles don't seem to have replaced D roads within their borders yet, even if they have created some M roads - but some have done the lot (with a very simple change of prefix and sign colour rather than making a new numbering system), and that seems to be the aim (at least for the normal ones).

What's your source?

OSM was mostly changed earlier this year but since I had no GSV evidence I still drafted them as D route.

My relevant new systems will be:
fraaram63 Routes métropolitaines de la Clermont Auvergne Métropole - split off from fraaram63 (preview)
frabfcm21 Routes métropolitaines de la Dijon Métropole
fraaram38 Routes métropolitaines de la Grenoble-Alpes Métropole - split off from fraarad38 (preview)
frahdfm59 Routes métropolitaines de la Métropole européenne de Lille
fragesm57 Routes métropolitaines de la Metz Métropole - split off from fragesd57 (preview)
fragesm54 Routes métropolitaines de la Métropole du Grand Nancy - split off from fragesd54 (preview)
franorm76 Routes métropolitaines de la Métropole Rouen Normandie - split off from franord76 (preview)
fraaram42 Routes métropolitaines de la Saint-Étienne Métropole
fragesmXX Routes métropolitaines de la Eurométropole de Strasbourg
fraaram69 Routes métropolitaines de la Lyon

I'll create them - splitting off or drafting - once I'll have evidence that they are signed.

Are the system names fine?

Offline si404

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Re: frad: France Routes Départementales
« Reply #164 on: November 26, 2020, 03:15:15 pm »
What's your source?

OSM was mostly changed earlier this year but since I had no GSV evidence I still drafted them as D route.
My source was that wikisara was still referring to a lot of roads as D roads still, and that last time I looked, OSM wasn't showing many M roads - often none. A quick look at a route in Tours from August 2020 GSV says that hasn't been changed yet.
Quote
Are the system names fine?
You've made everything feminine, but I don't know if that's correct (having dropped French at school as soon as I could, I'm definitely not informed enough to know).

However, what I do know is that systems tend to be in the form of <area> <type of road>*, rather than the other way around. So something like "Métropole du Grand Nancy Routes Métropolitaines", like "Meurthe-et-Moselle Routes Départementales" that you are taking it out of.

*which isn't the best grammar in English, especially without a possessive, but it does the job, and I don't want to change it.