cansf: Canada Select Named Freeways

[julmac]

Note, however, that the guide plans are from 2015. More recent drone footage (around 7:05) indicates that a guide sign already erected seems to show the bypassed part of old TCH 1 as part of a numbered provincial route, probably SK 11. So the plans might've changed since then. We'll know more later this year when the Bypass is completed, or when the project team sends out another drone (hope this time they send it counter-clockwise around Regina, to catch as-built signage on the western bypass leg approaching the TCH 1 junction), or maybe sooner if julmac can do some field-checking next time he's in Regina.

The sign at 7:05 is on the west leg. Rotary Ave is the Transportation Hub access south of Dewdney Ave (SK730).

[yakra]

ON RedHillPkwy: LinMAPkwy -> LinAlePkwy
ON LinAlePkwy: RHillVPkwy -> RedHillPkwy

[rickmastfan67]

ON RedHillPkwy: LinMAPkwy -> LinAlePkwy
ON LinAlePkwy: RHillVPkwy -> RedHillPkwy

Fixed. https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3178

Also seems the Don Valley Parkway has gained exit numbers too.  Noticed them on OSM, and confirmed them 1-by-1 in StreetView.  However, one exit (that has an off-ramp) didn't gain a number, which was the ON-401/404 interchange (404 counterpart does have a #, but only from the HOV lanes).  So, 'both' copies of the DVP will get an update.

I've also finally pushed a cleaned up Allen Road file for the site based on previous discussion.

on.garexpy
The easternmost segment, beyond DonValPkwy, looks a bit off to me. Are we sure the route ends here, and that this shouldn't be considered a ramp?

As far as I understand, it's still considered as part of the Gardiner, especially since the route used to go all the way Leslie Street prior to 2001.

However, with the recent addition of exit numbers along the route (continuing the QEW numbering), this 'ramp' got #157, not the DVP side.  However, I haven't seen pictures yet to confirm that's exactly what happened with the numbering right there.

Getting back to this thing about the Gardiner, there is this "End Expressway" sign beyond they Don Valley Parkway, which kinda backs me up on keeping it, but the signage at the gore point does indicate it's Exit #157 (fun that it mentions ON-2, which doesn't exist there anymore).

So, I honestly could go either way at this point.

[michih]

One other approach we can take is to solicit comments on whether the two "select" systems in devel status should be promoted to preview, and what changes should be made before promotion. That would focus discussion on actual systems, rather than in the abstract.

cannf, which has been in devel status for ages, would be a good candidate for such discussion. It's something I've long thought should be promoted to preview, after discussion of what should and should not go in the system. I manage two jurisdictions with cannf routes (BC and SK -- I don't see anything in QC, or the Arctic jurisdictions, that should be added to cannf). yakra manages many of the other Canadian jurisdictions, including two (AB and NS) with routes in the system and other routes he's pooh-poohed as possible cannf additions. rickmastfan67 manages ON, with several routes.

One of the users who's expressed interest in promoting cannf to at least preview is julmac, who lives in AB and has family in SK, and has provided valuable help in peer-reviewing new systems in both provinces. Discussion of what to do with cannf, at least, should not be on a "collaborators only" board.

I'm also in favor of promoting cannf to preview. Since it is a Select system, it can be incomplete per se.

The manual says: https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/sysdef.php#selectsys

What are Select highway systems?
There are routes with high importance to travelers which do not belong to any highway system. These are routes which are maintained by local authorities, are privately owned, or belong to systems which are extensive and not yet included to the project. Travelmapping categorizes these routes to an own Travelmapping highway system if possible. These systems are called Select because they cannot be considered being complete. We only include routes which the highway data manager of the region considers being relevant.

[oscar]

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4079 and https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4082 will promote cannf to preview status. This is for discussion about the general criteria to choose routes for "select" systems in the "Select Freeway System definition" thread on the collaborators-only part of the site, as well as specifically any changes that should be made to cannf (in this thread, open to all users).

[yakra]

rickmastfan67: thoughts on promoting to preview?

oscar: looks link there's no longer a circle drive file. Was the idea to just have TCH 1 & SK 11 take care of this?

[oscar]

oscar: looks link there's no longer a circle drive file. Was the idea to just have TCH 1 & SK 11 take care of this?

Circle Drive, in Saskatoon SK, is now completely covered by TCH 16, SK 11, and SK11Cir. I deleted Circle Drive from cannf when we finally worked out how to deal with the Saskatoon route clusterfork.

Ring Road, in Regina SK, once included part of TCH 1 before the TCH was rerouted onto the new Regina Bypass. Now that so much of Ring Rd. is no longer included in a numbered route system (part of it is concurrent with SK 6), I added it to cannf along with all the other changes from the Regina Bypass project.

[rickmastfan67]

rickmastfan67: thoughts on promoting to preview?

No problems here.

When we're ready to send it to active, we'll have to deal with the '2' Gardiner Expressway & DVP files.

[andrepoiy]

Any plans to add the following freeways in Ontario?

1. Highway 2A, maintained by the City of Toronto, a short stub freeway (2 km) off the 401 which was supposed to connect to the Scarborough Expressway.

2. Airport Parkway, in Ottawa, which is a 2-lane freeway with full interchanges.

3. Nikola Tesla Blvd, in Hamilton, Ontario, also a short 3 km freeway that connects the steel industrial areas of Hamilton to the QEW.

4. Conestoga Parkway in Kitchener-Waterloo area. Although it's part of Hwy 7, Hwy 8 and Hwy 85, perhaps it might be easier just to just input exits on one parkway instead of having to input on 3 different routes.

5. Dougall Parkway, in Windsor, Ontario, also a short 1.6 km stub freeway that comes off the 401.


Some roads that could be freeways? These are more open to interpretation on whether they are freeways or not.

1. Highbury Avenue, in London, Ontario, seems to be a freeway. However, there are traffic lights at the 401 interchange.

2. Highway 27 (maintained by City of Toronto) from Highway 401/427 to Belfield Road, it's undivided but the speed limit is 80 km/h and there is an interchange with Dixon Road.

[rickmastfan67]

Any plans to add the following freeways in Ontario?

1. Highway 2A, maintained by the City of Toronto, a short stub freeway (2 km) off the 401 which was supposed to connect to the Scarborough Expressway.

2. Airport Parkway, in Ottawa, which is a 2-lane freeway with full interchanges.

3. Nikola Tesla Blvd, in Hamilton, Ontario, also a short 3 km freeway that connects the steel industrial areas of Hamilton to the QEW.

4. Conestoga Parkway in Kitchener-Waterloo area. Although it's part of Hwy 7, Hwy 8 and Hwy 85, perhaps it might be easier just to just input exits on one parkway instead of having to input on 3 different routes.

5. Dougall Parkway, in Windsor, Ontario, also a short 1.6 km stub freeway that comes off the 401.


Some roads that could be freeways? These are more open to interpretation on whether they are freeways or not.

1. Highbury Avenue, in London, Ontario, seems to be a freeway. However, there are traffic lights at the 401 interchange.

2. Highway 27 (maintained by City of Toronto) from Highway 401/427 to Belfield Road, it's undivided but the speed limit is 80 km/h and there is an interchange with Dixon Road.

1) I know about that one, but it's too short for the site.  Plus, due to the Scarborough Expressway cancellation, it's pretty much now a glorified offramp now without being ON-2A.
2) Are we sure it's completely 'control access'? Normally we tend to avoid Super-2's unless it's 100% controlled access.  Right here screams to me that it isn't considered to be controlled access: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.364084,-75.6649226,229m/data=!3m1!1e3  Plus Google, OSM, both don't mark it as a 'motorway/freeway' (unlike most of your other suggestions).  Do you know of anything official from Ottawa MOT that says without a doubt that it's considered controlled access?
3) While being a tic longer than 2A, it's still too short for the site. Needs to break 3mi/~4.8km or come insanely close.
4) Sadly, it would be a lot harder to do it that way (more files to maintain when not necessary).  I could see doing it IF it had it's own exit numbers & had a separate segment that wasn't part of any of those routes, but since it doesn't, this would be a no-go.
5) Too short.

B1) This is controlled access (sans @ ON-401 of course, but used to be a cloverleaf there).  It's JUST shy of 3mi (coming in @ 2.83mi).  However, it was former ON-126.  I think this would logical addition to the site, since it's just barely shy of the 3mi recommendation for these types of routes.
B2) No, not a true freeway.  Plus it comes in under 2mi, even less if you go from where OSM marks the end of the freeway (which is still part of ON-427's C/D lanes officially https://goo.gl/maps/sLhk9ZMNFy33kjmt8 ).

[rickmastfan67]

Highbury Avenue now submitted.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4568

[yakra]

With ON402 cut back to Exit 1, thoughts on adding the Blue Water Bridge, as Ontario's answer to the Betsy Ross?

[froggie]

With ON402 cut back to Exit 1, thoughts on adding the Blue Water Bridge, as Ontario's answer to the Betsy Ross?

What's the story behind this one?  My first inkling would be to leave it as-is.

[vdeane]

If we're going by MTO's "the 400 series highway (and the freeway) ends before customs" definition, shouldn't ON 405 be cut back to *PorRd too?

[dave1693]

If we're going to truncate the Ontario highways to a point past Canada customs (per MTO) then we need to add all the international crossings separately. JMO.