NH: NH 77/114 Trk in Weare

[drebbin37]

There are signs at each end of Center Road in Weare designating it as NH77Trk and NH114Trk.  This is clearly just to avoid the sharp corner at the 77/114 junction.  There's also a sign in each direction on Center Road saying either "To NH 77" or "To NH 114."  Should it be included as a truck route here?

[neroute2]

Looks like it's a truck route for 77, since 77 ends at 114 and it's signed as truck 77 west. But if you're trucking on 114 you won't use this route, so it's not a truck route for 114.

[Duke87]

At the risk of invoking "stupid truck routes" again...

What to the GIS files we have listed as our source for NH have to say about whether Center Rd is part of the state route system?

Some points worth noting:
- the banners atop the signs say "truck route", not "truck"
- at the north end of Center Rd both NH 77 and NH 114 are mentioned, but at the south end only NH 77 is mentioned... naturally, since trucks following NH 114 have no need to detour, but trucks seeking to get from NH 77 west to NH 114 south do.


Now, I'm a truck route skeptic to begin with. But this does at a glance to me look to be more of a permanent posted detour than really a "route" per se. All you have are those signs at the ends of the road saying "truck route west/east 77 thataway". There is no "junction truck 77", no signs pointing to it for traffic heading away from the sharp angle intersection, no "truck 77" reassurance markers...

But I am curious what NHDOT documentation has to say about this.

[froggie]

NHDOT has a number of roads that are part of the state highway system, but are unnumbered.  Center Rd is one of them.  Other examples include the road to the Mt. Washington COG railway, West Side Rd in Conway, and Woodbury Ave in Portsmouth.  "VT Hwy 105" is another one...NHDOT has no number for that roadway.

[yakra]

There are signs at each end of Center Road in Weare designating it as NH77Trk and NH114Trk.  This is clearly just to avoid the sharp corner at the 77/114 junction.  There's also a sign in each direction on Center Road saying either "To NH 77" or "To NH 114."  Should it be included as a truck route here?

Looks like it's a truck route for 77, since 77 ends at 114 and it's signed as truck 77 west. But if you're trucking on 114 you won't use this route, so it's not a truck route for 114.

Agreed. Tim's rule of thumb was "Does it make sense as an ALT route?" That informed my decision to include NH16TrkBer, but not a NH110TrkBer.
It's more of a Truck Route TO NH114.

At the risk of invoking "stupid truck routes" again...

Too late! But the OP only had the best of intentions!

What to the GIS files we have listed as our source for NH have to say about whether Center Rd is part of the state route system?
...I am curious what NHDOT documentation has to say about this.

NHDOT has a number of roads that are part of the state highway system, but are unnumbered.  Center Rd is one of them.

Correct. Not that it necessarily matters though -- NH6TrkBer for instance is mostly town-maintained roadway.
(*Quick check*) The new US3TrkNor is 100% town-maintained.

- the banners atop the signs say "truck route", not "truck"

Not a make-or-break, IMO. Some jurisdictions will do it this way. ME228TrkWas immediately comes to mind. Per MDOT route logs & shapefiles it's a bona fide state route, 228T internally.

Now, I'm a truck route skeptic to begin with. But this does at a glance to me look to be more of a permanent posted detour than really a "route" per se.

Truck routes make me misquote The Simpsons.
Of course, since I always end up arguing semantics, and the project does seem to get about that a lot, (and because Stupid Truck Routes), how do we define permanent posted detour or "route". A lot of truck routes may be just that.

All you have are those signs at the ends of the road saying "truck route west/east 77 thataway". There is no "junction truck 77", no signs pointing to it for traffic heading away from the sharp angle intersection,

Less signage than most routes, yes. I'd hold truck routes to a lower standard, WRT signage headed away from the intersection; I'd say enough to detour thru truckers is all we'd need.
On the one hand, "truck route west/east 77 thataway" is some signage. ISTR there were some usaky routes with minimal signage, just one reassurance marker, or one marker on an intersecting route...

no "truck 77" reassurance markers...

OTOH! This is the kicker for me. Just the TO [other route] signage as drebbin37 noted in the OP. Does seem a bit weaker a case than a proper 77Trk reassurance marker.
On the third hand, how would I treat it if there were just no signage here at all. Kentucky...

[froggie]

Eric, can you condense that into a "yes or no" on whether to add the route?

[yakra]

...eventually?

[froggie]

Drove this "route" today.  As noted upthread, the trailblazer signs approaching Center Rd on each side say "Truck Route".  They are also posted in only one direction...i.e. no "TRUCK ROUTE NH 77" if you're on WB/SB 77/114 approaching the southern end of Center Rd.

And as noted upthread, there is a single "TO NH 77" shield in each direction on Center Rd, with a "TO NH 114" going southbound from the northern end.  No mention of a "TRUCK ROUTE NH 114" going north from the southern end.

We've made truck routes for less.  That said, I'm inclined to suggest we don't include this one.

[yakra]

Eric, can you condense that into a "yes or no" on whether to add the route?

On the one hand, "truck route west/east 77 thataway" is some signage. ISTR there were some usaky routes with minimal signage, just one reassurance marker, or one marker on an intersecting route...
...
OTOH! This is the kicker for me. Just the TO [other route] signage as drebbin37 noted in the OP. Does seem a bit weaker a case than a proper 77Trk reassurance marker.
On the third hand, how would I treat it if there were just no signage here at all. Kentucky...

This all means "still officially undecided" though I've been leading slightly more toward including it.
Something else to tip me a little more in favor: sometimes on child (Bus, BL, etc) routes I've seen just TO (PARENT) signed when nearing the ends, rather than a proper Bus/BL shield. This route is short enough that we could consider the whole thing such a lame-duck route section...

We've made truck routes for less.  That said, I'm inclined to suggest we don't include this one.

USAKY routes for less too. I've included every other signed truck route I know in NH (this one's just a little more "stupid"). To stay consistent in one state at least, I'll include this one too, along with changes for the Massachusetts topics.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3563