Author Topic: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales  (Read 2185 times)

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Offline michih

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frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« on: May 23, 2020, 11:44:37 am »
Actual status of the systems:

frahdfd02 - Aisne Routes Départementales
frahdfd59 - Nord Routes Départementales
frahdfm59 - Métropole européenne de Lille Routes Métropolitaines
frahdfd60 - Oise Routes Départementales
frahdfd62 - Pas-de-Calais Routes Départementales
frahdfd80 - Somme Routes Départementales


Legend:
Black=not yet drafted (not in HB), Red=devel, Orange=preview, Green=active

Notes to routes:
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/FRA-HDF/frahdfd/README.md

Please report issues here!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 04:44:34 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2020, 03:03:58 am »
frahdfd02 - Aisne Routes Départementales will be in preview with the next site update. More than 600 routes for about 3,000mi.

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 02:46:51 pm »
frahdfd60 - Oise Routes Départementales will be partially in HB as in-development system with the next site update. Mostly trunk routes (orange on OSM).
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 02:48:58 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 01:54:48 pm »
Future M route system: https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2976.msg20989#msg20989

frahdfm59 - Métropole européenne de Lille Routes Métropolitaines


frahdfd59 - Nord Routes Départementales will be partially in HB as in-development system with the next site update. Mostly trunk routes (orange on OSM).
frahdfd62 - Pas-de-Calais Routes Départementales is partially in HB as in-development system. Mostly trunk routes (orange on OSM).

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2020, 12:26:11 pm »
frahdfm59 - Métropole européenne de Lille Routes Métropolitaines is in preview now. 139 routes for about 460mi. It is the first TM 'M route' system in France :)

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2020, 12:08:26 pm »
frahdfd59 - Nord Routes Départementales is in preview now. About 470 routes for more than 2,500mi.

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2020, 04:34:34 am »
frahdfd62 - Pas-de-Calais Routes Départementales will be in preview with the next site update. About 680 routes for more than 3,000mi.

It fills this gap in the NW of France:

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2020, 04:46:14 am »
frahdfd60 - Oise Routes Départementales will be in preview with the next site update. More than 350 routes for more than 2,000mi.

That means, all systems in HDF are in preview and ready for peer-review now :)

Offline si404

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2020, 04:49:28 am »
That means, all systems in HDF are in preview and ready for peer-review now :)
Excellent - a second region to reach that state!

Given I'm in a 3rd lockdown to protect against a new strain that they are worried about because it spread despite locking down, I'll probably be able to finish reviewing Norway and get on to these in the several weeks stuck at home.

Offline si404

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2021, 06:48:15 am »
Lower hanging fruit than Snorway, and having been distracted by down under for some time, I'm going to bash through these.

Pas-de-Calais (62) first - just as I have some (small) travels there from a couple of booze cruise family day trips back in the 90s when such a thing was all-the-rage, before the economics made it excessive for everyday consumption and the 'exoticness' of Calais stopped (in part because regular trips abroad became the norm, and because British supermarkets started stocking larger ranges).

D1, D1E1, D2 - fine

D3 - presumably D860 (RueMar/RueChaFla) and D917 (AveMarLec) are not in browser as unsigned (or at least not in that area in the case of D917). I've found a D60 sign at RueMar, which was the old pre-bypass number and that's the only number (including D3) I've seen along the route inside the newer D60 route. Suggest truncating there, unless signed, for consistency.

D4 - fine

D5, D5Her, etc - Nord in borders needs to be Nor, IIRC (see also rule on suffixes, where 4 letter ones are only allowed if its <3 letter abbrev><direction>). I won't mention it on other routes as it might get repetitive.

D5E1, D5E2, D6, D6Mar, D6E1, D6E2, D7, D7Ber, D7E1, D7E2 - fine

D7E3 - D7 -> D7/D9

D7E4, D8, D8E2

D8E4 - marked as E3 on OSM, signed as just 'E' (presumably they all are, with the number an admin thing). check number is OK.

D9, D9E1, D9E2, D9E4, D9E5, D9E6 - fine

Offline si404

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2021, 07:13:04 am »
D10, D10E1, D10E2, D10E3, D10E4, D11, D11Sar, D11E1, D11E2, D11E3, D12, D12E1, D13, D14, D14E2, D14E4, D15 - fine

D15E2 - PdC/Nord (sic) is off where OSM has put the border. Check you have it in right place.

D15E3, D16, D16E1, D17, D18, D18E1, D19 - fine

D19Eco - what's the route between D939 and D14/D16? Needs another point at D14/D939 from what I can make out.

D19E1, D19E2, D19E3 - fine

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2021, 09:19:11 am »
D15E2 - PdC/Nord (sic) is off where OSM has put the border. Check you have it in right place.

General note on departement borders - not region borders - all over France:
I located them where the administration / maintenance changes. That means where a mile post (or stone) can be found on GSV or between the blue "departement welcome signs" if they exist. Where I can find a pavement change or where a marking is on the road. Often Dxx extends a little bit to the next junction in the neighboring departement.

I didn't do that for IDF which systems are already active.

Offline si404

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2021, 11:56:49 am »
D20 - fine

D21 - D643 -> D21E2/D643?

D21E1 - fine

D21E2 - D643 -> D21/D643?

D22, D23, D23E1, D23E2, D23E, D24, D25, D25E1 - fine

D26
 - D23E1 -> D23E1_W
 - add point between N25_E and D1 for where road to N25_W intersects

D27, D27Ach, D28, D29, D29Pui - fine

D30 - change self-ref labels at D8 junctions

D31, D31E, D32, D33, D33E1, D33E3, D34, D34E1

D35 - D4 -> D4_E?

D36
 - D35_N -> D35_S
 - D917_N -> D9/D917

D36E1, D36E2, D36E3, D36E4 - fine

D37 - BlvdEur -> BlvdEur_E

D37E1, D38, D39, D39E, D39E6 - fine

Offline si404

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2021, 12:45:39 pm »
D15E2 - PdC/Nord (sic) is off where OSM has put the border. Check you have it in right place.

General note on departement borders - not region borders - all over France:
I located them where the administration / maintenance changes. That means where a mile post (or stone) can be found on GSV or between the blue "departement welcome signs" if they exist. Where I can find a pavement change or where a marking is on the road. Often Dxx extends a little bit to the next junction in the neighboring departement.
My point wasn't that it was in the wrong place, my point was that it might be in the wrong place and that it ought to be checked. Given I'm not seeing any points that are off for junctions and the like, I'll ignore when a border point (as opposed to a junction point with a road just beyond the border, which I was ignoring) doesn't match where OSM has put the border.

D40, D40E1, D42, D42E3, D42E4, D43, D44, D44E1, D44E2, D45, D46, D46E, D47, D48, D49, D49E1, D49E2, D49E3, D49E4, D49E5 - all the 40s are fine!

D50 - fine

D50E1 - D50/D50E2 -> D50 as, IIRC, in IDF, you collapsed intersections where a route met a parent and a suffixed route to just mention the parent.

D50E2 - D50/D50E1 -> D50 as ditto. See also points like D40_W on D46, which also intersects with D40E1. Or D80_S on D59.

D51 - D937 -> D58/D937

D51E1, D52, D52E2, D53, D54, D54E1, D54E2, D55, D55E1, D55E2, D56 - fine

D57
 - D301 -> D301/D941
 - D937 -> D58/D937

D57E1, D57E2, D57E3, D58

D58E1 - D58/D58E4 -> D58

D58E2, D58E3 - fine

D58E4 - D58/D58E1 -> D58

D59, D59E2 - fine

Offline michih

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Re: frahdfdXX: Hauts-de-France Routes Départementales (city boundary)
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2021, 05:37:27 am »
D3 - presumably D860 (RueMar/RueChaFla) and D917 (AveMarLec) are not in browser as unsigned (or at least not in that area in the case of D917). I've found a D60 sign at RueMar, which was the old pre-bypass number and that's the only number (including D3) I've seen along the route inside the newer D60 route. Suggest truncating there, unless signed, for consistency.

This route: https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=frahdf.d000362&lat=50.273768&lon=2.772632&zoom=14

There is a (new) sign on March 2020 GSV from D60 inbound. That means, your suggestion is most likely not a good approach.
The last (old) D3 sign on March 2020 GSV is where I have "RueChaFer" with outbound and inbound signs.
Both, OSM and GM indicate D3 up to "AveMarLec" where I have the end point right now. That's also how we dealt in Belgium. However, France is not Belgium.

It is a general issue for France to figure out where the maintenance changes to local administration, and where to end the TM route.

I usually have no info about it and departements deal differently.


If a route goes through a small town and the routing is clear, I don't interrupt the route.

If the route leads into a bigger town or city with the route ending anywhere in the town, the last signs are often
- on top of the town entrance sign or
- at (one of) the first (major) junction - with a outbound sign only

If the latter is the case, I put the wp there because signposting is quite clear.

In case of the former, I put the wp to the first (major) junction assuming that they dealt similarily but the outbound sign is missing. If there is a junction to another TM route (in HB for any reason mentioned before) which is close, I extend the route to the that junction.



The question for D3 is, whether the very old signs at "RueChaFer" should count or not.
If not, the next - outbound only - sign is at "RueMar" junction" but there is also the D60 sign you mentioned which is for the old D60 routing and outdated / incorrect sign.
This junction also features the Achicourt entrance sign inbound. It is a commune with 7k inhabitants. An independent commune, not belonging to the city of Arras with a population of 41k which is likely the local authority for the maintenance within its city boundaries.
The boundary between both is here and "RueAdamHal" the next junction inbound.

Most of the other routes end at the first major junction in Arras, extend further than the ring road. The green route is D3 we are talking about.





Possible location for the last D3 wp:
  • D60: no! There is a new inbound sign and it is far away from the city entrance
  • RueMar: Last old but not very old outbound sign at the entrance to Achicourt
  • RueChaFer: Old signs but in both directions
  • Between RueChaFer and RueAdamHal: Entrance to Arras, junction could be considered major enough
  • RueAdamHal: First major junction in Arras
  • AveMarLec: Important route in Arras and current end and according to OSM+GM

Thoughts?

Finding a decision is also important for (many) other routes down the road...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 05:42:31 am by michih »