Author Topic: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes  (Read 12037 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2020, 03:44:30 pm »
They form a coherent system we can remove from eurtr and put in its own thing. They were only really put in to one larger grab bag so as to reduce the number of systems.

I wanted to propose this too. But there is minimum one international routes: Northern Lights Route in Norway, Sweden and Finland. How would we deal with it?

Pros:
- Easier to review
- Quicker to activate
- Easier to maintain (minimum csv files)
- Easier to clinch

Cons:
- International routes
- Number of systems
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 03:46:31 pm by michih »

Offline si404

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • Last Login:Today at 04:05:20 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2020, 03:56:52 pm »
But there is minimum one international routes: Northern Lights Route in Norway, Sweden and Finland. How would we deal with it?
The Northern Lights Route would stay in eurtr, for now at least.

We might keep a grabbag system, however, Norway's Scenic Routes, Scotland's National Tourist Routes, and no doubt some others, form coherent systems of their own. cf: KY Parkways (as was) and NY Parkways coming out of the US Select Named Freeway system.

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2020, 04:01:49 pm »
So, a new nortr system with the 18 main routes, and NLR should stay in eurtr?

MR as the only main route for dnktr or should it stay in eurtr?
GTS as the only main route for chetr or should it stay in eurtr?

Offline si404

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • Last Login:Today at 04:05:20 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2020, 05:25:37 pm »
So, a new nortr system with the 18 main routes, and NLR should stay in eurtr?
Yep.
Quote
MR as the only main route for dnktr or should it stay in eurtr?
GTS as the only main route for chetr or should it stay in eurtr?
They should stay for now. Arguably they should be in the same system with the Wild Atlantic Way and other such 'road trip routes' (eg NC500 should they get round to signing it with the shields they have).

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2020, 06:18:13 am »
MR as the only main route for dnktr or should it stay in eurtr?
GTS as the only main route for chetr or should it stay in eurtr?
They should stay for now. Arguably they should be in the same system with the Wild Atlantic Way and other such 'road trip routes' (eg NC500 should they get round to signing it with the shields they have).

I'm not sure whether I like your proposal. We might merge all nortr, gbrtr, deutr,... systems back into eurtr again once all are active? But on the other hand, especially the only Danish and the only Swiss route might be the ones going active first.

I'd like to have one system per country (not region), review them, and merge them all together into eurtr again.
But when?
It will take very long till all German tourist routes will be drafted and reviewed.
And I've no idea which countries do have tourist routes, e.g. Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland,... Do they have?

Offline si404

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • Last Login:Today at 04:05:20 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2020, 06:39:31 am »
We might merge all nortr, gbrtr, deutr,... systems back into eurtr again once all are active?
No. My proposal is that we take specific coherent systems - Norwegian scenic routes (which doesn't include the NLR), Scottish National Tourist Routes, etc - out of the grab-bag eurtr system permanently.
Quote
But on the other hand, especially the only Danish and the only Swiss route might be the ones going active first.
No. The GTS and MR will definitely not being going active first.

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2020, 06:45:07 am »
But on the other hand, especially the only Danish and the only Swiss route might be the ones going active first.
No. The GTS and MR will definitely not being going active first.

I meant as dnktr + chetr systems.

Or we split everything off from eurtr so that only the international routes and routes of regions with just one (main) route remain, and bring it active "earlier" - not first but early.

But which international routes are still missing? I don't have an overview which I think is needed before we can decide. Just my 2c...

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2020, 11:09:44 am »
But which international routes are still missing? I don't have an overview which I think is needed before we can decide. Just my 2c...

Via Claudia Augusta is in DEU, AUT and ITA
Via Sacra is in DEU, POL and CZE
Route Verte is in DEU and FRA
Sisi Stra├če is in FRA, CHE, LIE, AUT, DEU and HUN
Via Regia is in FRA, DEU, POL and UKR
...

Offline si404

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • Last Login:Today at 04:05:20 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2020, 12:29:31 pm »
I meant as dnktr + chetr systems.
perhaps dnkmr and chegts systems, containing just the one route (in multiple sections), because they are unique in that country. But one route doesn't really make a system and those two are similar and belong together with other such massively long routes (Wild Atlantic Way, etc)

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2020, 01:07:00 pm »
Fine to me but what's the difference to the potential nortr, deutr,... routes?

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2020, 02:09:19 pm »
The eursf system could be a Select system. Select International Tourist Routes? Select Tourist Routes?

We could review and activate it, then add other routes including update entries if we will find more routes in other European regions.

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2020, 07:43:56 am »
norntv (Norway Nasjonale Turistveger) is split off now. Only the international route Nordlysvegen remains in eurtr system.

About 80% of the German tourist routes are 100% within Germany but 20% do cross borders. I don't wanna split a deutr system off which covers only 80% of the routes. Although I just did the very same for norntv which comprises only 95% of the Norwegian tourist routes....

I'm still in favor of merging the systems once all will be active. But for reviewing, it's better to have small systems, especially since still a lot of routes are missing to eurtr, e.g. about 99% of the German routes.

What a mess.....

Offline si404

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • Last Login:Today at 04:05:20 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2020, 08:22:56 am »
About 80% of the German tourist routes are 100% within Germany but 20% do cross borders. I don't wanna split a deutr system off which covers only 80% of the routes. Although I just did the very same for norntv which comprises only 95% of the Norwegian tourist routes.
You are thinking nationally here - splitting into countries. I'm thinking systemly here - splitting into systems.

The sctntr system (which obviously isn't gbrntr, covering the whole UK) has just the 12 national tourist routes (1), and doesn't include many other routes (eg there's 17 routes mapped here here: the 12 national routes, 3 of the 4 'road trip routes' (NC500 and copy-cats*), one of the several trails, and the one Scenic Route created out of an attempt to try and copy Norway, forgetting that routes already existed!). That's because the system is a system, rather than a grab-bag within a region.

The norntv system has all the 'Norwegian Scenic Routes' / 'Nasjonale turistveger' in it - that there's another tourist route in Norway (there might be more - eg the Blue Highway - but when I briefly looked, I couldn't see it signed) is neither here nor there as to whether it's a complete system.

A large number of routes would remain in the European grab bag (perhaps we have an active system, and a 'under-development' system, perhaps with specific review systems and just move stuff across for review and activation?), but these two are certainly systems in their own right - they could go back into eurtr, but they can stay out as coherent entities.

*Of course the NC500 is itself somewhat of a copy-cat, modelled after the Wild Atlantic Way. And I'm pretty sure the MR, GTS and WAW are interlinked. They kind of form a sort-of-system (certainly a subset of a grab-bag system) together - and so we might want them grouped together.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 08:26:54 am by si404 »

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2020, 09:19:34 am »
I'm not sure that these are systems. Who defines them?

For instance, the German wikipedia article about the adventure routes (Erlebnisstra├čen) in Austria states that there are more than 60 routes in Austria but the Austrian Tourismn Association has characterized twelve routes out of them and called them Traumrouten = dreamlike routes. Should the twelve routes be an own system?

If so, why can't we consider the Danish Margueritruten and the Swiss Grand Route like the Austrian dreamlike routes and put them into own systems? I think it's also similar to the TCH system... Virtually one route with different segments.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 09:22:26 am by michih »

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2792
  • Last Login:September 16, 2020, 02:44:31 pm
Re: eurtr: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2020, 09:30:45 am »
I like the option of having small systems. It would also be fine to me if we had.... 30 systems in Germany and 5 in Austria or whatever.... But how can we say that the system is complete?

Well, eurtr is a Select system and we don't say that it's complete..... maybe that's the way we should go..... I don't like it though.