IL: IL108 ferry split and point rename

[vespertine]

With the precedent that routes with ferries are split at the ferry crossing, IL108 needs to be split into two, with the short Kampsville stub, and the rest of the route.

Also EldHill -> BluSt (Bluff St), according to intersection signage.

v.

[Highway63]

I think it would be silly to make a three-block segment its own route. Also, other ferries deal with termini of a route not continuing in the same state.

I could make a 1stSt point.

[michih]

I think it would be silly to make a three-block segment its own route.

It's not silly but the only way to go!

https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=il.il108&lat=39.299545&lon=-90.608105&zoom=17

[Duke87]

I think it would be silly to make a three-block segment its own route.

It's not silly but the only way to go!

https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=il.il108&lat=39.299545&lon=-90.608105&zoom=17

And precedented.

[oscar]

I drove all of IL 108 yesterday. The route is all in one route file, even though it includes a ferry crossing mid-route, the short Kampsville Ferry across the Illinois River. Ordinarily, we'd split the route at the ferry, with a short 108 segment in Kampsville, and a much longer one from the east ferry landing to I-55. Should we do that here?

[yakra]

Yes.

[mapcat]

Seems this has come up before, and Highway 63 was opposed. Regardless, we do this everywhere else, don't we?

[Duke87]

Seems this has come up before, and Highway 63 was opposed. Regardless, we do this everywhere else, don't we?

Yes, it's standard practice that this is how to handle ferries.

The simple logic is we map roads, not ferries - but a separate fork of the project that maps ferry clinches would be a potential future consideration. So it'd be included there.

[Highway63]

I fundamentally disagree with splitting the route because it's illogical, and made that exact point earlier this year. There's no sense in creating a separate segment that is 0.1 mile in length when there's an available point at 1st Street. All the other locations that involve ferries are much longer in length of the ferry.

If there's a situation where someone was unable to cross from the east side (the ferry being out for whatever reason), I could see putting in a point at the east landing. But I don't think there should be the trouble of a separate file. Jim told me he was fine with that.

[oscar]

I fundamentally disagree with splitting the route because it's illogical, and made that exact point earlier this year. There's no sense in creating a separate segment that is 0.1 mile in length when there's an available point at 1st Street. All the other locations that involve ferries are much longer in length of the ferry.

FWIW, when I tried to do that for CA 84 and CA 220 in the Sacramento River delta (which Bickendan drafted with no break at their ferry crossings, both about as short as the one on IL 108), yakra prevailed on me to split the route files, which I did. But that didn't create tiny stubs for either route, like would be needed for an IL 108 split. I think some of yakra's jurisdictions might have routes split by ferry crossings, more similar to IL 108.

[michih]

I'm fully in favor of splitting the route. It's similar to the breaking-at-region-border practice but rivers are a even clearer separation. I cannot image any exception for ferry crossings.

https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=il.il108

[yakra]

I think some of yakra's jurisdictions might have routes split by ferry crossings, more similar to IL 108.

Some islands, some rivers. Here's what I find with a BASH script:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39

showing my work:

Code: [Select]

routes=$(for rg in $(cat ~/tmregions); do grep -sv '^+' $rg/*/*.wpt | cut -f1 -d' ' | grep Fry$; done | sed -r 's~[a-z]{0,3}\.wpt.*~~')
c=1; for url in $(for file in $(diff <(echo "$routes") <(echo "$routes" | uniq) | grep '^<' | cut -f2 -d' ' | uniq); do grep Fry $file*.wpt | sed -r "s~^[A-Z]+/[a-z]+/(.+)\.wpt.+(lat=.+)~https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=\1\&\2\&zoom=17~"; done); do echo "[url=$url]$c[/url]"; c=`expr $c + 1`; done | tr '\n' ' '; echo
Everything project-wide?

Code: [Select]

# find all routes with "Fry" points; chop off abbrevs (1051)
routes=$(for rg in $(ls | grep -v _); do grep -sv '^+' $rg/*/*.wpt | cut -f1 -d' ' | grep Fry$; done | cut -f1 -d: | uniq | sed -r 's~[a-z]{0,3}\.wpt.*~~')
# limit to only routes in multiple segments (233)
routes=$(diff <(echo "$routes") <(echo "$routes" | uniq) | grep '^<' | cut -f2 -d' ' | uniq)
# limit to ferries at endpoints (625)
points=$(for r in $routes; do for f in $r*.wpt; do (echo -en $f:; head -n 1 $f; echo -en $f:; tail -n 1 $f; echo) | grep -v '^$' | cut -f1 -d' ' | grep Fry$; done; done | sort | uniq)
# restore coords from .wpt line
points=$(for p in $points; do r=`echo $p | cut -f1 -d:`; l=`echo $p | cut -f2 -d:`; grep -H -m 1 "^$l " $r; done)
# convert to HB URL
echo "$points" | sed -r "s~^[A-Z\-]+/[a-z0-9]+/(.+)\.wpt.+(lat=.+)~https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=\1\&\2\&zoom=17~"Ignoring unprocessed .wpts, that's 616 waypoints in 537 chopped routes with ~229 unique designations.
Too many results to paste full-on links in a single forum post. Here are just the roots:
ab.ab661fta ab.ab661 ab.ab697pad ab.ab697 ab.ab740pea ab.ab740 ab.ab838kne ab.ab838 ab.ab862new ab.ab862 ak.ak007 ala.vt002var ala.vt002 ar.ar125buc ar.ar125 ausnsw.td022mac ausnsw.td022 aussa.b023kin aussa.b023 aussa.b045wel aussa.b045 austas.c249 austas.c249zee bc.bc001van bc.bc001 bc.bc006ver bc.bc006 bc.bc016hai bc.bc016 bc.bc017ric bc.bc017 bc.bc023nak bc.bc023 bc.bc101pow bc.bc101pow bc.bc101 bc.bc101 bc.tchhai bc.tchmai bc.tchvan bc.tchyel bgd.ah001jes bgd.ah001 brasp.sp226can brasp.sp226 ca.ca084rio ca.ca084rye ca.ca220 che.gtskus che.gtszur chl.r007bra chl.r007bra chl.r007hor chl.r007hor chl.r007lep chl.r007lep chl.r007mon chl.r007pas chl.r007 chl.r007 cod.rtr05buk cod.rtr05 cod.rtr100gem cod.rtr100gem cod.rtr100 cod.rtr105aike cod.rtr105aike cod.rtr105alod cod.rtr105alod cod.rtr105alub cod.rtr105alub cod.rtr105a cod.rtr105ayal cod.rtr105ayal cod.rtr106lub cod.rtr106 cod.rtr10bon cod.rtr10bon cod.rtr10but cod.rtr10but cod.rtr10mon cod.rtr10mon cod.rtr10 cod.tah10buk cod.tah10 cod.tah10 cod.tah8bon cod.tah8bon cod.tah8but cod.tah8but cod.tah8mon cod.tah8mon cod.tah8 cod.n002kab cod.n002 cod.n004bon cod.n004bon cod.n004but cod.n004but cod.n004mon cod.n004mon cod.n004 cod.n005kil cod.n005 cod.n006gem cod.n006 cod.n007ike cod.n007ike cod.n007lub cod.n007lub cod.n007mas cod.n007 cod.n007 cod.n007yal cod.n007yal cog.tah3bom cog.tah3 cog.tah3 ct.ct148lym ct.ct148 ct.ct160gla ct.ct160 deubw.b033mar deubw.b033rad deubw.l0597edi deubw.l0597 deubw.l0630kol deubw.l0630 deumv.l302 deumv.l30bre deumv.l30mil deumv.l30 deumv.l30 deuni.l223ble deuni.l223 deurp.b266lin deurp.b266 deurp.l087hon deurp.l087 deush.l047ren deush.l047 deush.l097par deush.l097 deush.l126ham deush.l126 deush.l131off deush.l131 deush.l132sch deush.l132 deush.l135bur deush.l135 deush.l276kud deush.l276 deush.l293seh deush.l293 deush.l308old deush.l308 deush.l327vaa deush.l327 deust.l002hav deust.l002 deust.l009san deust.l009 deust.l051 deust.l051zer deust.l127els deust.l127 deust.l128mau deust.l128 deust.l149 deust.l149zer deust.l156wet deust.l156 deust.l162hal deust.l162 dnk.mraal dnk.mraro dnk.mraro dnk.mresb dnk.mrgly dnk.mrhur dnk.mrnyk dnk.mrnyk dnk.mrode dnk.mrsja dnk.mrsve dnk.mrsve dnk.mrvib dnk.mrvib dnk.mr dnk.mr dnk.pr008faa dnk.pr008 dnk.pr009nyk dnk.pr009 dnk.pr016cop dnk.pr016 dnk.pr021ran dnk.pr021 dnk.sr181han dnk.sr181 dnk.sr207lyn dnk.sr207 dnk.sr531udb dnk.sr531 dnk.sr541asa dnk.sr541 dnk.sr545hur dnk.sr545 dnk.sr581amt dnk.sr581 eng.e20liv eng.e20 eng.a0374tor eng.a0374 eng.a0379ply eng.a0379 eng.b3205 eng.b3289stj eng.b3289 eng.b5285win eng.b5285 est.t010kur est.t010 fin.e18naa fin.e18 fin.pierentieala fin.pierentieala fin.pierentienag fin.pierentie fin.saarentiebjo fin.saarentiebjo fin.saarentiegal fin.saarentiegal fin.saarentiejum fin.saarentiejum fin.saarentiemos fin.saarentiemos fin.saarentienag fin.saarentienag fin.saarentienor fin.saarentienor fin.saarentietra fin.saarentietra fin.saarentie fin.saarentie fin.st180kor fin.st180nag fin.st180nag fin.st180 fin.st192var fin.st192var fin.st192 fin.st468kan fin.st468 fin.st471han fin.st471 fin.st482lip fin.st482 fin.st816hai fin.st816 franor.d002076clo franor.d002076 franor.d006776bou franor.d006776 franor.d014376por franor.d014376 franor.d026576mes franor.d026576 frapac.d008513mar frapac.d008513 gmb.tah7bar gmb.tah7 idn.ah002den idn.ah002mer idn.ah002 idnjw.ah002mer idnjw.ah002 idnka.ah150sam idnka.ah150sam idnka.ah150 irl.n067tar irl.n067 irl.wawara irl.wawbbp irl.wawber irl.wawbur irl.wawcah irl.wawinf irl.wawpon irl.wawtra irl.waw jpn.n317iku jpn.n317inn ken.ea007uku ken.ea007 ken.ea007 ken.a014mom ken.a014 ky.ky0169ric ky.ky0169 ky.ky0214oti ky.ky0214 ky.ky0269log ky.ky0269 la.la0075pla la.la0075 la.la0559dut la.la0559 la.la0640res la.la0640 mb.mb373nor mb.mb373 mb.mb493sil mb.mb493 mi.mi134dru mi.mi134 mlt.t001goz mlt.t001 nc.nc012ced nc.nc012ocr nc.nc306bay nc.nc306hav nc.nc306 nc.nc306 nc.nc615cur nc.nc615 nir.a002new nir.a002 nld.n216sch nld.n216 nld.n229rij nld.n229 nld.n329app nld.n329 nor.e39ber nor.e39ber nor.e39for nor.e39for nor.e39lei nor.e39lei nor.e39mol nor.e39mol nor.e39skj nor.e39spj nor.e39spj nor.e39tro nor.e39vol nor.e39vol nor.e39 nor.e39 nor.e69hon nor.e6kir nor.e6 nor.fv017ags nor.fv017ags nor.fv017ber nor.fv017ber nor.fv017for nor.fv017for nor.fv017glo nor.fv017nes nor.fv017nes nor.fv017san nor.fv017san nor.fv017 nor.fv048ars nor.fv048 nor.fv049odd nor.fv049 nor.fv057dal nor.fv057dal nor.fv057lin nor.fv057 nor.fv060bli nor.fv060hel nor.fv060str nor.fv060 nor.fv061har nor.fv061har nor.fv061mau nor.fv061 nor.fv063gef nor.fv063gei nor.fv063 nor.fv064isf nor.fv064 nor.fv081svo nor.fv081 nor.fv082fis nor.fv082 nor.fv082 nor.fv091lyn nor.fv091lyn nor.fv091old nor.fv091 nor.fv469hid nor.fv469 nor.fv541nor nor.fv541 nor.fv546fan nor.fv546hus nor.fv546 nor.fv548san nor.fv548 nor.fv549jek nor.fv549vag nor.fv549 nor.fv550kin nor.fv550utn nor.fv550 nor.fv552oso nor.fv552 nor.fv567bre nor.fv567 nor.fv570hos nor.fv570 nor.fv614sta nor.fv614 nor.fv616mal nor.fv616old nor.fv655ors nor.fv655 nor.fv659bra nor.fv659 nor.fv668mor nor.fv668 nor.fv668 nor.fv669san nor.fv669 nor.fv670alv nor.fv670 nor.fv680kri nor.fv680 nor.fv682hen nor.fv682 nor.fv710bot nor.fv710 nor.fv715tro nor.fv715 nor.fv769hof nor.fv769 nor.fv808hem nor.fv808 nor.fv809san nor.fv809 nor.fv828sov nor.fv828 nor.fv834fja nor.fv834 nor.fv848sta nor.fv848 nor.fv850fle nor.fv850 nor.fv862ska nor.fv862 nor.fv863van nor.fv863 nor.fv882has nor.hartvjon nor.hartvjon nor.hartvodd nor.hartv nor.heltvags nor.heltvags nor.heltvber nor.heltvber nor.heltvfor nor.heltvfor nor.heltvhol nor.heltvnes nor.heltvnes nor.heltvsan nor.heltvsan nor.heltv nor.ryftvjor nor.ryftvjor nor.ryftvsan nor.ryftv nor.rv005kau nor.rv005lae nor.rv005 nor.rv005 nor.rv013sog nor.rv013sta nor.rv013 nor.rv013 nor.rv019hor nor.rv019 nor.rv085bog nor.rv085 nor.rv651vol nor.rv651 nor.rv827dra nor.rv827 ns.ns211isa ns.ns211 ns.ns217fre ns.ns217fre ns.ns217 ns.ns223abe ns.ns223 ns.ns312eng ns.ns312 ns.tchmai ns.tchpei 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[Markkos1992]

I merged the IL 108 topics together. 

[bejacob]

I fundamentally disagree with splitting the route because it's illogical, and made that exact point earlier this year. There's no sense in creating a separate segment that is 0.1 mile in length when there's an available point at 1st Street. All the other locations that involve ferries are much longer in length of the ferry.

If there's a situation where someone was unable to cross from the east side (the ferry being out for whatever reason), I could see putting in a point at the east landing. But I don't think there should be the trouble of a separate file. Jim told me he was fine with that.

I support this view as well. The ferry is free and runs 24 hours a day unless the river is frozen or the water is unusually high. If I recall, it took less than 10 minutes from the time I approached the eastern landing to reach the other side and I think I had to wait for the incoming boat to unload.

While I understand the argument for splitting the route, this is one time where I don't think it makes sense as the western split would be so short. Putting a point at the eastern landing does make sense to satisfy drivers who are unable or choose not to cross the river. I'm in favor of adding one. The reason for splitting this route is a strict interpretation of the site guidelines. Plenty of other routes have bent the rules (some unsigned routes; some usanp routes; State St in Jackson, MS) just to name a few. In general, great deference has been given to the maintainer of a region as to which routes to include and how to interpret the site guidance. I support Highway63's position of not splitting this route.

[Jim]

Added a note to the GitHub Issue about processing "interrupted" connected routes.