Canada and USA Systems Master Thread

[Duke87]

I'd be interested in drafting the systems in the Seattle area. One question I have is, why is the Seattle Center Monorail listed as tier 5? I think that because the monorail trains have similar capacity to Las Vegas' (or Disney World's) monorail cars and because they're integrated into the regional transit system (ORCA cards are accepted on the monorail), it should be at tier 3 like the other two I mentioned.

Also, I might be interested in creating the Vancouver Skytrain. Vancouver also has a commuter rail line called the West Coast Express.

Go ahead and take on drafting for Seattle and Vancouver.

The Seattle Center Monorail is tier 5 because it's a short shuttle and thus has the function of a people mover. Also importantly, it's smaller and less significant than Sound Transit Light Rail, which is in Tier 4. Fare integration isn't a relevant parameter here, plenty of other cities have fare integration between systems in different tiers.

The Disney World and Las Vegas monorails are both bigger systems with multiple stations, and are both the biggest game in town for rail transit in their respective cities.

For reference, current (albeit still draft and subject to change) tiering guidance:

Tier 1: intercity rail systems (e.g. Amtrak, Shinkansen)
Tier 2: commuter rail systems and tourist/heritage railroads
Tier 3: high-tier transit systems (e.g. subway/metro)
Tier 4: mid-tier transit systems (e.g. light rail/tram)
Tier 5: low-tier transit systems (e.g. streetcars,  people movers)

With a monorail the question here is is it functionally a metro system in its own right (tier 3) or is it a people mover (tier 5). Seattle's is the latter.

[compdude787]

Okay, I guess that makes sense that if it only has two stops, then the Seattle Center Monorail just a people mover and I suppose I can live with it being tier 5. Anyway, I will hopefully start working on creating the systems for Seattle and Vancouver within the next month or so.

Also, I forgot to mention that Tacoma has its own streetcar line, known as the T Line. Wikipedia calls it light rail but it uses the same streetcar vehicles that are used on both the Seattle and Portland Streetcar, and OSM tags the line as a streetcar, so this would be tier 5.

[the_spui_ninja]

Utah actual railroads just drafted:

Tier 2: UTA FrontRunner (usautax)
Tier 4: UTA TRAX (usautat)
Tier 5: UTA S-Line (usautas)
https://www.rideuta.com/-/media/Files/Rider-Tools/Schedules-and-Maps/Route-703/703schedule_Aug2023.ashx

[the_spui_ninja]

Drafted the RTD railroads today (also found their reporting marks!)
Tier 2: RTD Commuter Rail (usartdx)
Tier 4: RTD Light Rail (usartdz)

Also have the KC streetcar up.

Tier 4: RideKC Streetcar (usakcsc)

[Jim]

For something like RTD, it would make sense to me to have the word "Denver" spelled out somewhere in the system name.  I am sure there are many other cases. Or maybe people who will want to use TM Railways will all know all of the initialisms.

[Duke87]

Yeah, we already have "Cleveland RTA Light Rail", it would make sense to have "Denver RTD Light Rail"

The question is, where is the cutoff where the agency name is deemed broadly recognizable enough that specifying the city isn't necessary?


One thought I do have on that: I don't like the idea of stacking a city name with an acronym that also contains it. So I would not want to change "DART Light Rail" to "Dallas DART Light Rail" because this has the "put in your PIN Number at the ATM Machine" problem.
I would also avoid it when the acronym contains a geographic identifier which is not the city name, like "Massachusetts Bay" or "South Eastern Pennsylvania", though this is less bothersome since it's less wholly redundant.


Certainly when you have a generic agency name like "Regional Transportation District" (no, the D in RTD does not stand for Denver - that fooled me when I first encountered the name too) it helps.

[cl94]

Something I've been thinking about as I'm about to get started with NorCal: should I combine the 3 Bay Area commuter rail systems (ACE, Caltrain, SMART) into a single system? Each consists of exactly one line, and while Caltrain has multiple "services", these are simply zone expresses similar to what the Metro NY commuter rail syatems do on their lines.

[the_spui_ninja]

Yeah, we already have "Cleveland RTA Light Rail", it would make sense to have "Denver RTD Light Rail"

The question is, where is the cutoff where the agency name is deemed broadly recognizable enough that specifying the city isn't necessary?


One thought I do have on that: I don't like the idea of stacking a city name with an acronym that also contains it. So I would not want to change "DART Light Rail" to "Dallas DART Light Rail" because this has the "put in your PIN Number at the ATM Machine" problem.
I would also avoid it when the acronym contains a geographic identifier which is not the city name, like "Massachusetts Bay" or "South Eastern Pennsylvania", though this is less bothersome since it's less wholly redundant.


Certainly when you have a generic agency name like "Regional Transportation District" (no, the D in RTD does not stand for Denver - that fooled me when I first encountered the name too) it helps.

I honestly thought it stood for Denver too, I'll make that update.

[the_spui_ninja]

Also sorry about the resulting emails, I already had a pull request open and wanted to get to it before I forgot (also don't want to revise my thesis but that has to get done too  )

[michih]

For something like RTD, it would make sense to me to have the word "Denver" spelled out somewhere in the system name.

Seconded! I think it's even more important for the routes so that https://tmrail.teresco.org/hb/findroute.php can be used. Entering "Denver" in the "Route Name" field is outputting 10 routes now.

[si404]

I've drafted some Florida systems

• usablfx - Brightline
• usacfr - SunRail
• usatrcx - Tri-Rail
• usawdw - Walt Disney World Monorail
• usahart - TECO Line Streetcar, Tampa
• usajta - Jacksonville Skyway

and some Toronto area systems

• cango - GO Transit
• canion - ION Light Rail
• canair - Canada Landside Airport Rail Systems
• cantsc - Toronto Streetcars/li]

Toronto Pearson Airport's people mover could be put in with the US ones, else it's on its lonesome.

[the_spui_ninja]

and some Toronto area systems

• cango - GO Transit
• canion - ION Light Rail
• canair - Canada Landside Airport Rail Systems
• cantsc - Toronto Streetcars/li]

Toronto Pearson Airport's people mover could be put in with the US ones, else it's on its lonesome.

Change the system to "naair - North America Landside Airport Rail Systems" or something like that? I'd be okay with that.

[neroute2]

"SEPTA Trollies" should be "SEPTA Trolleys".

[Duke87]

"SEPTA Trollies" should be "SEPTA Trolleys".

https://github.com/TravelMapping/RailwayData/pull/120

[neroute2]

Would there be any objection to me creating systems such as St. Louis Metrolink and MATA Trolley?