usatr: United States select tourist routes

[webny99]

And for others, it may be more than just Ogdensburg; there's over 40 miles between Rochester and Oswego that's off the state route system, plus the two short connections in Niagara Falls. I am fortunate to live close enough to have most of that clinched already, but there's a segment near Wolcott I'll have to grab at some point. I do like the fact that the Seaway Trail connects to NY 250 and NY 14 at their northern termini so they no longer look like dead ends.

I'm missing those as well (well, I'm 95% certain I have everything around Niagara Falls), but at least they're not hard to get (I was actually considering whether I want to go to Chimney Bluffs State Park in one of my trips out this year; I guess I should prioritize that).

Chimney Bluffs is absolutely worth a visit as long as you're up for a moderate hike to get to the best views. Plus the Seaway Trail between there and Webster is a pleasant drive with light traffic and some good lake views. Quaint Pultneyville and Sodus Point are both worthy stops as well.

I would far prefer that usatr fall back to devel status, rather than going away, until the questions about it can be discussed and decisions made.

I can agree with that.

I also agree with this and would like to see some of the main issues fixed before it becomes a preview/active system.

[Highway63]

I've had IA and IL Lincoln Highway routes ready to go for YEARS. But, since this system is up there right now as at least temporarily a thing, I will comment on the idea that these could be used later (and then your source files can be my source files).

Iowa Lincoln Highway
Because some people might want to follow the Scenic Byway and have it reflected in their US 30 travels, I'm copying and pasting points where applicable and will be adding them to the main US 30 route. I know where they are because they're wherever a US 30 overlap isn't showing for me.

There are currently two gaps in the route due to closed roads in the IA 17 and Lisbon areas. I’m in a protracted debate/struggle with the Iowa LHA on this as the Iowa DOT wants to re-sign the route this year, I have some changes across the state based on my research, and any major changes have to take into account its national byway designation. What's there in those two places is fine for now but I hope to have them changed in the field.

Points to be added to LH file
Is there a specific reason it's not carried on I-480 to the state line? Seems odd.
Denison west of US 59: ChaDr http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.998778&lon=-95.381048
Carroll east of downtown: GraRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.064054&lon=-94.859262
Belle Plaine just east of IA 21_S (see below): 8thAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.897070&lon=-92.276616

Belle Plaine LOOP
LinHwy_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.906589&lon=-92.296550
21stSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.906597&lon=-92.278569
7thAve_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.903906&lon=-92.278547
19thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.903890&lon=-92.276680
LinHwy_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.897070&lon=-92.276616

Cedar Rapids
"West Post Road" and "East Post Road" are not cardinal directions tied to the street grid, so those should be WestPostRd_S, WestPostRd_N, and EastPostRd.

The Wapsi bridges on old 30 are closed for good and the through route has to be moved onto 142nd Avenue and 30. Signage has yet to be updated because, see above.
235thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.833055&lon=-90.816164
NEW US30_Whe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.829665&lon=-90.816035
(keep current US30_Whe but rename as 154thAve)

US 30/61 to east of DeWitt, currently missing deviation from old 30 and needing county road junctions:
US30/61 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825700&lon=-90.569572
11thSt_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825796&lon=-90.547214
6thAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825172&lon=-90.539017
5thAve_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825220&lon=-90.537493
11thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.826196&lon=-90.537493
CRY70 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.826403&lon=-90.529490
245thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.822790&lon=-90.458121
CRZ24_N http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.819464&lon=-90.452371
US30_DW http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.815338&lon=-90.451813

Nebraska Lincoln Highway
What's there is neat but the official Nebraska Byway just follows US 30 across the state. Unimaginative, I know.

Lewis and Clark Trail(s)
I was going to say that Iowa's has no reason to exist since it's simply following I-29, but I saw you did it for other states. It's odd/wild that Nebraska and Kansas don't have theirs join up.

[michih]

Not sure where you're getting 6-7 weeks/40-50 days from.

I think that the Easter egg is meant to last for the (Western Christian) Eastertide only. Sure, we can agree on any succession, e.g. bringing the system back to devel status for fixing concurrencies, misalignments etc.

[vdeane]

Not sure where you're getting 6-7 weeks/40-50 days from.

I think that the Easter egg is meant to last for the (Western Christian) Eastertide only. Sure, we can agree on any succession, e.g. bringing the system back to devel status for fixing concurrencies, misalignments etc.

Interesting.  I can't say I'm really familiar with Eastertide, but from looking it up, it appears to be a "high church" (Catholic and denominations that are very nearly Catholic) thing.  And for a while, it was sounding like this would become immediately permanent...

I'll have to pay more attention next year to see if anything appears.  I didn't even know that Easter eggs on this site were a thing until this thread popped up.

[Markkos1992]

The railway stuff was originally an Easter Egg a few years ago.

[si404]

Back at my PC for a few hours for the first time since Monday - I'll try and see what fixes I can get sorted. But then I'm away again until Wednesday. Keep updates coming - I'll get to them at some point in the next couple of weeks.

I've had IA and IL Lincoln Highway routes ready to go for YEARS. But, since this system is up there right now as at least temporarily a thing, I will comment on the idea that these could be used later (and then your source files can be my source files).

Oh yes, I'm sure other collaborators have personal files for some of these routes. By all means preference your own work over mine in your states if you desire!

Is there a specific reason it's not carried on I-480 to the state line? Seems odd.

No signs saying it goes that way and nothing on the other side to even do an implied connection.

Nebraska Lincoln Highway
What's there is neat but the official Nebraska Byway just follows US 30 across the state. Unimaginative, I know.

I didn't see any signs for that official byway routing (though I wouldn't bet against neroute2 finding one!).

I would far prefer that usatr fall back to devel status, rather than going away, until the questions about it can be discussed and decisions made.

That's a very reasonable solution.

Interesting.  I can't say I'm really familiar with Eastertide, but from looking it up, it appears to be a "high church" (Catholic and denominations that are very nearly Catholic) thing.

It may be a high church word, but the non-denominational 'Independent' basically-Baptist church that was pretty low I went to when I lived elsewhere had the concept - a time between Easter Sunday and Ascension/Pentecost to focus on Easter - just as Advent was (wrongly if you are High Church) a time to focus on Christmas.

If there is interest in railways - including updating systems.  I noticed that dropped off (except for Si's) - I also noticed there were no boards for helping review them - too alpha?

There are boards for review, albeit in a collaborator's only section. However the whole thing has kind of hit the buffers. The systems people want are mostly in. They are mostly unchanging so don't need updating (only forthcoming one I can think of in North America that might happen this year is if the temporary F routing becomes permanent with the M taking the old route that's currently undergoing works), and we haven't finalised a manual so they can't be fully reviewed.

[si404]

Aid-memoire for me for future me in a couple of days. These are what I haven't yet addressed (I've also looked for duplicate labels and other such errors).

The Seaway Trail in Erie has an annoying one-way pair. Eastbound is as shown (missing sign for the turn onto 6th), but westbound stays on Bayfront to 8th.

LECT signage seems to completely disappear west of Geneva OH, with signs only for the Lake Erie Coastal Ohio Trail (which has a different route in places). This has been true since 2008 or earlier. Signs return where it hops onto I-90.

Another issue with the Seaway Trail - it doesn't follow NY 5 west of Hamburg.  Unfortunately, signage isn't entirely clear west of that point.  It appears to follow the route in this map around there, but there are locations where it doesn't follow the route in that map (like around I-190, the LaSalle, and NY 384).  I expect each turn will need to be verified to get the correct route.

[neroute2]

Another issue with the Seaway Trail - it doesn't follow NY 5 west of Hamburg.  Unfortunately, signage isn't entirely clear west of that point.  It appears to follow the route in this map around there, but there are locations where it doesn't follow the route in that map (like around I-190, the LaSalle, and NY 384).  I expect each turn will need to be verified to get the correct route.

That map is not quite right; it stays on Lake Shore Road at Dennis Road. I can't find any current signs at the return to NY 5 in the Seneca Nation, but it was signed to turn off at OldLSRd in 2007.

[vdeane]

There are boards for review, albeit in a collaborator's only section. However the whole thing has kind of hit the buffers. The systems people want are mostly in. They are mostly unchanging so don't need updating (only forthcoming one I can think of in North America that might happen this year is if the temporary F routing becomes permanent with the M taking the old route that's currently undergoing works), and we haven't finalised a manual so they can't be fully reviewed.

I took a look, and it appears that Amtrak is only an Easter egg over there.  The idea of having a rail site without Amtrak is kinda wild.  Maybe it should be "subway" or something if it's only supposed to be municipal transit systems?

[webny99]

Aid-memoire for me for future me in a couple of days. These are what I haven't yet addressed (I've also looked for duplicate labels and other such errors).
...

No big deal but unless I missed something, it appears that the two points below also have not been addressed yet.

Also... NY SeaTrl has a couple of point issues.

SeaTrl endpoints of NY14 overlap (NY14_N and NY14_S) do not exist as points on NY 14.
I-190 21 21B incorrectly shows concurrent with SeaTrl.  SeaTrl follows the direct ramps from NiaScePkwyNia to NY384, although it is only 0.1 mile so it may be passable.

[Markkos1992]

The Seaway Trail in Erie has an annoying one-way pair. Eastbound is as shown (missing sign for the turn onto 6th), but westbound stays on Bayfront to 8th.

I am open to suggestions on this.  I do not really want to fix the broken concurrencies here before we decide how the Seaway Trail should be mapped.

The LECT already being on PA 5 ALT makes me want to go no-build, but I am not fully satisfied right now with that either.

And I just found this....  (so I am leaning even more towards no-build)

Anyway, I just fixed the US 40/National Rd Concurrency. (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7318)

[SSOWorld]

I'm supporting a demotion to devel now. 

The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)

[neroute2]

I'm supporting a demotion to devel now. 

The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)

You're wrong. Check signage, especially in Illinois.

[Highway63]

IA Lincoln Highway, State Center:
CRE41_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.018497&lon=-93.174870
3rdSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.018410&lon=-93.167253
3rdAve_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.016194&lon=-93.166679
+XLH07 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.017509&lon=-93.157356
CRE41_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.014735&lon=-93.156498

GRR: Apparently Illinois does have signs for a "National Route" that Iowa does not follow. This "National Route" jumps into Iowa between Fort Madison and Muscatine with a "state"(?) version in between.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4164618,-91.0311489,3a,15y,205.46h,89.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxheeMXXbms-NLyoJxzgX2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4262291,-91.0368615,3a,75y,55.1h,88.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0-G98IP00DR4_Y9vBnirw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

To my surprise, after a triple-check, the IL GRR is not signed along IL 35 at all, again instead with a "National Route" across the Julien Dubuque Bridge, even though Wisconsin signs it down WI 35 and Iowa has no signage carrying it across the US 20 or US 61/151 bridges.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5198588,-90.6071346,3a,87.5y,98.36h,96.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stw_ldlq7GfKXjqE9u5cGig!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Ditto a jump across the river at Chester, but Missouri forks it at the US 61/MO 51 intersection, with a southbound sign showing a turn but then the first US 61 sign after still has the GRR underneath:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.908531,-89.8313247,3a,59.2y,310.32h,92.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR4EpZmf_VKyKcIVFwardUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7436692,-89.8758363,3a,15y,179.04h,89.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soA8F90TkYdAk4v3do7TOGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

So Illinois thinks a "National" GRR jumps the river, but Iowa and Wisconsin adhere to having their own GRR's that never cross. Minnesota has a fork in the GRR at the US 61/10 split to get a branch to Prescott WI, and both are signed "National Route".
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7669182,-92.8584674,3a,86.1y,56.35h,98.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scmczeVqP2E-55TQBlULycg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[neroute2]

So Illinois thinks a "National" GRR jumps the river, but Iowa and Wisconsin adhere to having their own GRR's that never cross. Minnesota has a fork in the GRR at the US 61/10 split to get a branch to Prescott WI, and both are signed "National Route".
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7669182,-92.8584674,3a,86.1y,56.35h,98.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scmczeVqP2E-55TQBlULycg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

The fork is to the south at Hastings. The westbank route south of there does seem to be signed correctly without a plate for the most part.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=ien.35556020280913&seq=45
Per this mileage, the national route makes the following crossings:
*A bunch in Minnesota north of Hastings (looks like the extension to Canada was a state route)
eastbank in Wisconsin to
*Black Hawk Bridge (Lansing)
westbank in Iowa to
*Julien Dubuque Bridge (Dubuque)
eastbank in Illinois to
*Beckey Bridge (Muscatine)
westbank in Iowa to
*Fort Madison Bridge (Fort Madison)
eastbank in Illinois to
*Mark Twain Bridge (Hannibal)
westbank in Missouri to
*Chester Bridge (Chester)
eastbank in Illinois-Kentucky-Tennessee to
*Memphis-Arkansas Bridge (Memphis)? (this matches Arkansas mileage, but Tennessee seems way off)
westbank in Arkansas to
*Greenville Bridge (Greenville)
eastbank in Mississippi-Louisiana to
*Wilkinson Bridge (Baton Rouge)