Author Topic: usaca: California State Highways  (Read 49968 times)

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Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #225 on: October 10, 2019, 09:37:10 pm »
54: 7 -> 12(125)
55: 5B -> 5C to resolve ambiguity, since there's a separate 5B in each direction but only one 5C
57: 6 -> 6A, 6B is missing, shift 7 north
57: 22A -> 21 (there don't seem to be any signs for 22A/B, but the northbound exit is signed as 21)
58: ElCamReal -> ElCamReal_N
58: ParRd -> ParkHillRd
58: OakCrkPl is a gated driveway; move just east to BlueRd
58: move ShoStarRd just west to ODonRd for a more important road
58: GalGraRd -> GalGrd
58: OldCA58_W -> WagRd, and shift east
58: HinRd -> 227, LenRd -> 231
58: OldCA58_E no longer exists
59: CA99(188) and CA140_W should be the same point
59: CHJ* -> CRJ*
59: move YoudRd south to the other intersection

Offline yakra

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #226 on: October 10, 2019, 09:58:56 pm »
I'm with neroute2 on CA47, unless I missed some prior discussion that would change my mind.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #227 on: October 11, 2019, 12:55:51 am »
60: 1B is part of the same interchange as 1D, but maybe separating makes more sense
60: 74 -> 74A
61: CA112/185 -> CA185 (112 ends with 61, so it doesn't make sense to say there's a 61/112 junction)
61: CA112_End -> DooDr_S
61: 8thAve -> 8thSt
62: GovRd -> SteRd
63: CHJ30 -> CalAve
63: CHJ32 -> MurAve
63: CHJ34 -> Ave328
63: CHJ40 -> ElMonWay
63: Ave460 -> SandCrkRd (on big guide sign) or Ave460_E (on street blade)
63: CHJ19 -> ParkBlvd
65: CHJ22 -> Ave56
65: CHJ24 -> Ave95
65: CHJ28 -> Ave196
65: CHJ29 -> HerSt
65: CHJ30 -> FirAve
65ros: NieLn -> NelLn

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #228 on: October 11, 2019, 04:56:18 am »
Caltrans's PQT only shows state-maintained highways. This part of SR 47 is not state-maintained.

But usaca is basically a system of state-maintained highways.

There are exceptions for certain toll roads and bridges (shown in the PQT even if not maintained by Caltrans); business routes (most are former segments of state-maintained highways, transferred to local maintenance after they were bypassed by new alignments, but designated as business routes under California Streets and Highways Code section 100.9); and some other locally-maintained segments in the middle of otherwise state-maintained highways, kept in the HB for route continuity so that a route isn't chopped into pieces. None of these apply to the route 47 corridor north of the CA 103 split, which is essentially an unbuilt future CA 47 extension.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #229 on: October 11, 2019, 09:48:18 am »
Caltrans's PQT only shows state-maintained highways. This part of SR 47 is not state-maintained.

But usaca is basically a system of state-maintained highways.

There are exceptions for certain toll roads and bridges (shown in the PQT even if not maintained by Caltrans); business routes (most are former segments of state-maintained highways, transferred to local maintenance after they were bypassed by new alignments, but designated as business routes under California Streets and Highways Code section 100.9); and some other locally-maintained segments in the middle of otherwise state-maintained highways, kept in the HB for route continuity so that a route isn't chopped into pieces. None of these apply to the route 47 corridor north of the CA 103 split, which is essentially an unbuilt future CA 47 extension.
But TM cares more about signage than maintenance. Being well signed applies to that part of SR 47.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #230 on: October 11, 2019, 11:02:58 am »
66: FliSt -> FruSt
66: SirAve -> SieAve
67: CHS4 -> CRS4
68: SunDr -> SunDr_W
68: ForAve -> ForAve_N
68: MorDr -> SFBMorDr
68: LauGraRd -> CRG20
68: US101Bus_W -> US101Bus_N, US101Bus_E -> US101Bus_S

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #231 on: October 11, 2019, 11:24:11 am »
But TM cares more about signage than maintenance. Being well signed applies to that part of SR 47.

They both matter, as well as whether a road is officially part of the relevant highway system.

In this case, that state maintenance in the CA 47 corridor ends at CA 103, reflects that the roads to the north aren't (yet) part of the state highway system. Caltrans is legislatively authorized to add those roads to the system, which might happen after improvements are made.

But until then, signage is not enough. Your own experience with remnant CA 91 markers, on part of Artesia Blvd. that the state legislature had unconditionally removed from the state highway system (with none of the strings attached to many relinquishments elsewhere in the system), underscores that point.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #232 on: October 11, 2019, 11:44:31 am »
But TM cares more about signage than maintenance. Being well signed applies to that part of SR 47.

They both matter, as well as whether a road is officially part of the relevant highway system.

In this case, that state maintenance in the CA 47 corridor ends at CA 103, reflects that the roads to the north aren't (yet) part of the state highway system. Caltrans is legislatively authorized to add those roads to the system, which might happen after improvements are made.
I know all this. I also know that Caltrans has installed signs continuing SR 47 north past SR 103.

But until then, signage is not enough. Your own experience with remnant CA 91 markers, on part of Artesia Blvd. that the state legislature had unconditionally removed from the state highway system (with none of the strings attached to many relinquishments elsewhere in the system), underscores that point.
Although these are addition apples vs. deletion oranges, my "own experience" is that SR 91 does extend west to SR 1.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #233 on: October 11, 2019, 12:16:15 pm »
70: move 20B south to the overpass?
70: add GSJ at 1stSt
70: PalSt -> PalRd
70: why is 48 split into 48A and 48B? similar cases on other freeways put one point with the correct exit number between the two overpasses
70: RockCrkCamp -> RocCamp
70: OldUtahRd (where does this name come from?) -> VirRd?
70/89: move CreSt south half a block (or a full block?) to MainSt_W, an actual junction where you can leave the highway
70/89: LaPorRd -> QuiLapRd
70/89: OldMillRd -> MtTomRd (so we don't have to drop a word)
70/89: MowHwyRd -> MohHwyRd
70: 5thSt is minor and unnecessary for shaping
70: CHA* -> CRA*
71: 12 -> 11B, 13A -> 12, 13B -> 13
73: 17B -> 17C (since there's a different 17B northbound, but no other 17C)
73: 18A -> 18, 18B shouldn't exist as a separate point (the exit merges with the I-405 exit)
74: GraAve -> GraAve_S, RivDr -> GraAve_N
74: I-15BL -> LakDr (why do we have I-15 Business with a hanging end like this? shouldn't its north end be at exit 75?)
74: RedAve -> RedAve_S
74: IdyConRd -> ConRd per a photo on this page
75: HooBlvd -> FortEmoBlvd
75: SilStrBlvd (the name for 75 here) -> CorCaysBlvd
75: 13A -> NatAve, 13B -> I-5(14A); exit numbers have not been assigned to 75
76: SanFeAve -> CRS14
76: CHS* -> CRS*
76: CamRey -> CamDelRey
76: OldUS395 -> OldHwy395
76: PalaMisRd_W -> CRS16_W, PalaMisRd_E -> CRS16_E
78: AshSt -> AshSt_N
78: CHS* -> CRS*
78: ViaRanPkwy -> SanPasRd
78/79: MainSt -> MainSt_N
78: CalRHTr is not the correct location for where the trail intersects 78.
78/86: CenSt -> CRS30
78/86: CHS26 -> BoaRd? It doesn't look like CR S26 is signed here
78: CoaCanRd is not identifiable as a road across the sand
78: WashRd -> TedKipfRd
78: BlyOgiRd is a barely visible sandy strip
78: MidWellRd -> MidWelRd
78: 3SisRd -> 3SlaRd, move south
78: NeiBlvd -> NeiBlvd_S
79: OldUS80 -> OldHwy80
79: ColdStrTr -> CalRHTr
79: CHS* -> CRS*
79: move GoldMineRd north to BarHillRd, which has a sign
79: WarSprAir is not at the main entrance, which is farther west, and may be better as WarSprRan
79: FatSerWay is a private driveway with no signs; move north to GraPl?
79: SageRd -> CRR3
79: hide TemLim(ELim), TemLim(NLim), End(SanJacOldNLim) unless we split 79
79: MenAve(SanJacSLim) -> MenAve
79: RamBlvd -> MainSt
79: StaSt_N -> RamBlvd_W, StaSt_S -> StaSt
79: RamExpy -> RamExpy_E
79: SanAve_N -> RamExpy_W, SanAve_S -> SanAve
79: LambCanRd -> CouLanRd
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 02:20:46 pm by neroute2 »

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #234 on: October 11, 2019, 04:11:16 pm »
70: why is 48 split into 48A and 48B? similar cases on other freeways put one point with the correct exit number between the two overpasses

CA 70 Bus (Oroville) connects to 48B, but not 48A. Splitting the interchange makes for more accurate mapping of the business route, with a proper graph connection to the mainline. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered.

Quote
74: I-15BL -> LakDr (why do we have I-15 Business with a hanging end like this? shouldn't its north end be at exit 75?)

Exit 75 is an endpoint of Lake Elsinore's other business loop (weird, but true last I checked). As for why the first business loop doesn't end at exit 77, or 78, or 81, when I drafted that file this End I-15BL sign assembly (photo taken March 2012) on Lakeshore Dr.@CA 74 got in the way. That signage seems to have disappeared, and I didn't find in GMSV any other I-15BL signage at the intersection.

I don't feel like revisiting Lake Elsinore's strange business loop setup anytime soon, with all the other stuff on my plate. But in the meantime, given the apparent lack of visible BL signage at that intersection, I agree with your LakDr label change.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #235 on: October 11, 2019, 04:41:10 pm »
82: CruzBlvd -> DLCruzBlvd
82: CHG* -> CRG*
82: PageMillRd -> CRG3
82: PalmDr -> UniAve (this street name is signed in both directions on 82)
82: MarSt -> SanPedRd (since Market Street also goes west from 82)
84: BayExpy -> HavAve
84: FreBlvd -> FreBlvd_N, PerBlvd -> FreBlvd_S
84: MowAve -> MowAve_S
84: move MainSt to the overpass?
84: ValRd -> ValRd_N
84: move StaBlvd to the connector?
84rye: move EleRd north
84rye: CHE19 -> CRE19
85: 22A -> 22B to match both directions
86: CorRd -> HebRd_W, move east
86: TreBend -> TreBlvd
86: 81stSt -> 81stAve
86: add 70thAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.540026&lon=-116.100093 to keep within tolerance
86: TylSt -> 50thAve
88: CHJ* -> CRJ*
88: IriTownRd -> IriRd
88: SkyHighBlvd -> AquGroRd
88: US50Alt_W -> MorEmiTr (US 50 Alt is not signed here, and is only active when US 50 needs to be closed)
88: ForRd -> RedVisRd? neither is signed
88: US50Alt/89 -> CA89_N, CA89 -> CA89_S
88: OldCA88 -> CarRivRd
89: where does the HeeLakeRd name come from?
89: HotSprRd -> CRE1
89: move DiaValRd north to the main intersection
89: US50Alt/88 -> CA88_W
89: US 50/50Alt -> US50
89/US 50: LakeTahAir -> AirRd; move south at least halfway to this entrance
89: MeeBayAve doesn't exist there
89: BarPassRd -> FR03?
89: EleSt -> ManPl
89: SageHenRd -> SagRd?
89: CRS450 -> CR450
89: CalRd -> CRA23
89: SadRidRd -> SilPineTr
89: CHA* -> CRA*
89: GoldLakeHwy -> FR24?
89mts: move MouViewRd south to CasRd?
89mts: CHA* -> CRA*
89mts: HarSprRd -> FR15?
89mts: PilCreRd -> FR13?

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #236 on: October 12, 2019, 08:36:32 pm »
90yor: EspRd -> OraAve
91: 17 -> 17B?
91: 24A -> 23C
91: is 64B necessary?
94: add a point at 47thSt between 3 and 4A
94: 9C -> 9B (or should 9B for 125 and 9C for Spring Street be separated?)
94: JamBlvd_S -> CRS17_W
94: DutCanRd doesn't exist
94: BoeRd doesn't exist
94: BucSprRd -> CRS1
94: ChuRd -> BIA10?
94: OldUS80_W -> OldHwy80_W, OldUS80_E -> OldHwy80_E
96: RossRanRd -> RossRd
96: FR12N52 -> RogCrkRd?
96: FR15N19 -> BearPeakRd?
96: FR16N10 -> FR15N32 or CleCrkRd
96: move DruRd east to 2ndAve
96: HCDumpRd -> FR19N01?
96: DogCrkRd -> FR12?
96: KlaRivRd is too far east
98: DesRd is barely identifiable as a road; move east to Drop4?

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #237 on: October 12, 2019, 09:50:27 pm »
91: 17 -> 17B?

Based on? That would put the interchange with I-605 out-of-order with the Studebaker Rd. interchange (17A) to the east.

98: DesRd is barely identifiable as a road; move east to Drop4?

Looks like some of the roads I've driven in the Imperial Valley. :)

That said, Drop 4 (perhaps renamed AACDrop4) just barely works as a substitute shaping point, and unlike DesRd has a sign on CA 98 (for the public All-American Canal hydropower facility it serves) even if we can't otherwise tell what the road name is.

The other comments remain in my growing queue, this one just caught my eye.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 10:44:33 pm by oscar »

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #238 on: October 12, 2019, 10:56:53 pm »
99: 19 is missing
99: move 50 south halfway to Perkins Avenue?
99: move 56B south to 11th Avenue? the northbound exit is signed for Cecil Avenue
99: add 65B? similar to 70C
99: 90 no longer exists; add OakAve to the north?
99: 98A no longer exists; 98B -> 98
99: add 106A and Ave368? similar to 70C
99: move 114 south to the overpass?
99: move 133A south halfway to Tuolumne Street?
99: move 136A south to the Motel Drive overpass and 136B south to Clinton Avenue
99: 137A and 137B no longer exist
99: 153A -> 152, move 153A to the overpass?
99: add 186C?
99: move 193 south to the new location
99: 197 -> 198
99: move 225A north halfway to H Street?
99: move 232 south to the overpass
99: 251 no longer exists
99: 253 no longer exists
99: 257 -> 257A
99: 290 is signed as exit 291
99: add 295
99: 525B(5) -> 306
99: CHA* -> CRA*
99: JerAve doesn't exist; move to OklAve

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #239 on: October 12, 2019, 11:00:00 pm »
91: 17 -> 17B?

Based on? That would put the interchange with I-605 out-of-order with the Studebaker Rd. interchange (17A) to the east.
Based on the Caltrans exit list. It seems it hasn't been signed yet, but neither has 17 eastbound.