usabart: Bring in usaebart and OAK shuttle

[si404]

What makes eBART light rail?

I mean... this looks like an LRT vehicle to me: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Westbound_eBART_train_approaching_Pittsburg_Center_station,_May_2018.JPG

I'll go ahead and make the nldrs and autsst systems tier 4 then? Because the trains they use on many routes are the same as eBART Dutch example, Austrian example. They don't look like light rail though to me though!

OK, sure, here it's undeniably a light rail vehicle. Because of the nature of the tracks, not the vehicle. And the nature of the tracks in Austria are commuter rail, Netherlands local/commuter rail, California rapid transit, and Camden trams (the rest of the line outside Camden city centre is local/commuter rail though).

It sure ain't a subway train, so it does not belong in tier 3.

Because it's short? Francophones aren't going to be happy when I lower their metros like the Rennes Metro and the Lausanne Metro to tier 4 and pretend they are light rail because they went with short-vehicles-high-frequency. The Lille Metro train looks more 'light rail' than the eBART one.

It's described by wiki as a "hybrid" system having elements of both light rail and commuter rail, which... yes, fair. Which means it belongs in either tier 2 or tier 4 depending on which side it tends more towards.

Citation needed on the light rail thing. It's only 'light rail' because of weird legal status that US law encourages it to be called that and so avoid a load of draconian regulation that makes no sense for an entirely segregated rapid transit system (dare I say 'metro' - other than the power supply, it meets wikipedia's definition!) like this.

It's also listed as commuter rail because BART is commuter rail (though I'm fine with it being in the more prestigious tier 3 than tier 2). Wiki calls BART 'rapid transit' which is code for 'we had a big edit war over whether its commuter rail or metro because its both and people seem to think you can only be one or the other so we settled on a more generic term'.

I agree with it being in tier 4 because it's a shuttle connecting to the end of a tier 3 line, which means it serves a function consistent with tier 4. Wouldn't make sense having the subordinate lesser service in a higher tier than the service it's subordinate to.

At last a good bit of reasoning! I agree with all of this.

However, we have places where the shorter-train diesel shuttles are merged into the rest of the line. I don't know why we are treating Antioch as different from Wassaic, Port Jefferson, etc. It's inconsistent. All are treated as the same line (unlike say, the Mattapan line in Boston - where its drawn as and called a different line, even if its red), all require a change of trains.

[si404]

There are a bunch of cities throughout the US that have both heavy rail and light rail rapid transit lines, including one where they actually run on the same tracks through the city center (Cleveland, and yes this is cursed). They are pretty much always shown on the same map.

Different question though to eBART, which is the same line, not merely the same network.

The MBTA Mattapan line is shown as a separate, albeit red, line on the map. eBART isn't even mentioned on the BART map - just some nebulous 'transfer here' stop. And Yellow line trains have Antioch / SFO as their displayed termini, even though if you are the wrong side of the transfer station, you'd need to transfer.

And tier 3 and tier 4 both have two TM colours available - TMteal and TMlightsalmon provide alternates to TMblue and TMred. You can see the difference as demonstrated with London's two tier 3 systems and Stockholm's two tier 4 systems.

[Duke87]

However, we have places where the shorter-train diesel shuttles are merged into the rest of the line. I don't know why we are treating Antioch as different from Wassaic, Port Jefferson, etc. It's inconsistent. All are treated as the same line (unlike say, the Mattapan line in Boston - where its drawn as and called a different line, even if its red), all require a change of trains.

Wassaic and Port Jefferson both have thru service available during peak hours. On the other hand Greenport, which never has thru service and always requires a train change, is mapped accordingly.

The official map doesn't show Greenport any differently than Port Jefferson or Wassaic, but it's still mapped differently because what the trains physically do is the deciding factor here, not what the official map shows.

So yeah, rolling usaebart into usabart is one thing, but joining eBART with the Yellow Line as one route? No. That is simply inconsistent with reality, regardless of what BART may like to pretend on paper.

[bejacob]

I must admit, this has been an enlightening discussion.

While I was initially on board with combining the eBART section with the rest of the BART yellow line, the arguments for and against have changed my thinking. I'm in favor of keeping it a tier 4 system with just the single route.

In the long run, there are going to be many systems with single routes due to the nature of rail (HART, Tren Urbano, Valley Metro in Phoenix, and the Cleveland RTA red line just to name a few in the US). If the goal is to include basically anything that runs on fixed tracks, that's just going to be the way of things. Reducing the number of systems is a worthy goal, but aligning the rail systems to their appropriate tiers is probably more important.

[si404]

However, we have places where the shorter-train diesel shuttles are merged into the rest of the line. I don't know why we are treating Antioch as different from Wassaic, Port Jefferson, etc. It's inconsistent. All are treated as the same line (unlike say, the Mattapan line in Boston - where its drawn as and called a different line, even if its red), all require a change of trains.

Wassaic and Port Jefferson both have thru service available during peak hours. On the other hand Greenport, which never has thru service and always requires a train change, is mapped accordingly.

The official map doesn't show Greenport any differently than Port Jefferson or Wassaic, but it's still mapped differently because what the trains physically do is the deciding factor here, not what the official map shows.

So yeah, rolling usaebart into usabart is one thing, but joining eBART with the Yellow Line as one route? No. That is simply inconsistent with reality, regardless of what BART may like to pretend on paper.

OK, I'm persuaded.