chnsh: (China) Shanghai Provincial Expressways [Ready for review]

[Nagamasa]

chnsh is ready to review! Just a short one, 269 miles, 12 routes: https://travelmapping.net/user/system.php?units=miles&sys=chnsh

Sources: OSM, Wikipedia. The odd exit number that is missing from either is from watching videos online.

[Markkos1992]

Please make sure you are following the manual in regard to named highways:  https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php#named

I unsurprisingly do not know enough Chinese to really understand if the names are correct, but I have no idea if ZhouDengHwy is two words or one word.

[Nagamasa]

Every Chinese character is 1 phonetic syllable. While you could chop every sound mid-syllable, given most roads are just 2 or 3 Chinese characters long, with each of them with a (pinyin) sound from 1-6 Latin/English characters long, and without technical constraints, it would seem reasonable to just keep the whole thing for readability.

[michih]

@nagamasa If you want, we could also review this system first. Just fix this beforehand.

[Nagamasa]

S20 added to fp, NMP fixed, and duplicate label fixed: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/8343 [and merged]

We can review chng CHN-SH and chnsh.

[michih]

General thoughts:

I think that the system should be called chnshs.

The system only includes 2-digit S routes. I guess that the 3-digit S routes are a potential lower tier system and should not be added to this system. Can this approach be applied to other provinces too?

Should G1503 in the NE be added to chng system?

Your wp positions are often slightly off. I'm not happy with that but it's not essential. However, some wps are not according to our rules. Please check the manual. See my comments below.

Every Chinese character is 1 phonetic syllable. While you could chop every sound mid-syllable, given most roads are just 2 or 3 Chinese characters long, with each of them with a (pinyin) sound from 1-6 Latin/English characters long, and without technical constraints, it would seem reasonable to just keep the whole thing for readability.

You are right about readability. However, we have to follow our manual.



S1:
+X749924 is off
Should the route end just right after +X749924 ? OSM indicates it up to here, GM up to T1 exit. I don't know if this sign on the left is an indication? Or the yellow sign next to the speed limit on the next gantry?
T1 -> 1 + T2 -> 2 like indicated on OSM and signed according to mapillary


S2:
XipuRd -> ZiuRd or DisAve or DujEleRd (please refer to OSM Germany layer in wpt editor)
ZhouDengHwy -> ZhoHwy
Move 34 between the centerlines of the two highways, of course, also update the coords of the S32 wp
Move 41 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.037241&lon=121.666449 ("short access road connects a road to another with a trumpet)"
Move 46 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.990394&lon=121.668380 (trumpet)
Move 52 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.964634&lon=121.725168 (trumpet)
Move 57 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.936970&lon=121.771871 i.e. between the centerlines
62 is slightly off
69: What's the source of the exit number? OSM only indicates Shuntong Road and Ganlan Rd.
I think we should truncate the route to exit 69 as indicated on OSM + GM
(71 is not positioned right)


S3:
Move 3 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.131835&lon=121.597439
Move 27 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.909308&lon=121.607489

S4:
18A -> G60
35 is off, trumpet
Move 40 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.931065&lon=121.471852
48 is off, centerline
56 is off, centerline


S5:
Extend route at north end to Yecheng Rd
13 is off, centerline


S6:
Fine


S7:
Fine


S19:
Extend at south end to Longhang Rd
(5 and 11 are slightly off, centerline)
18 is off, centerline


S20:
18 is off, centerline
36 is off, centerline
35 -> 45
+X191445 is off, centerline


S26:
Exit 10 (G1503 wp) missing
What does (E) refer to? If "east", I suggest "(H)" for Huaxin or hua cao zhen
Move 0/5(E) to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.222862&lon=121.247102 also for G15 and remove wp 6 (one-point-per-interchange)
0/5(E) -> 6(E) -> 6(H)
ZJ/SH -> SH/ZJ


S32:
Does it already extend to S1 at east end? GM indicates it in service, OSM under construction. Please check.
ShuangGangHwy -> S229
Move 6 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.096436&lon=121.757741
Move 30 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.056875&lon=121.524995
Add wp for the rest area where you can turn at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.965958&lon=121.079110 (Liantang service area -> LiaSerArea)
Remove +X777015
81 is off, centerline
ZJ/SH -> SH/ZJ


S36:
13 is off, centerline
SH/ZJ is off, check borderline on OSM


I'd like to make another check before activation. Let me know when the changes are implemented. Please comment if you need further explanation why I suggest a change.

[Nagamasa]

I believe I made all the edits except:

S1:
Neither sign is a route end sign Can do whatever until someone complains about the (lack of) clinching. 

S26:
(E) for east, as the west portion was first built, then extended eastwards. Per Chinese Wiki, it was named Eastern Extension (exciting!). Makes more sense than a random village name.
6(E) actually is a distinct off ramp from 0/5(E), before the tolled section, it's otherwise distinct from the G15 interchange. 6(E) is aligned to the intersection underneath.

S32:
I don't it's extended, they're building a new terminal through it. Chinese mapping sources are limited, would not trust GM for anywhere in China.
You cannot actually reverse at that rest stop. Each direction has a separate parking area.

System name:
Not quite. I think it makes more sense to keep it short for the highest priority roads, mirroring systems like canon/canons usamt/usamts. the yellow-topped with white-on-green text (SX, SXX, SXXyy) are the provincial expressway system. SX for radial routes from the capitals, Sxx is the same as the Interstate grid, and SXXyy is the same as Interstate 3-digit routes.

Sxxx and Gxxx (Provincial and National) highways have separate shields and should be their own system.

In the event we ever get to the local highways, chnh and chnshh can be used for national and provincial highways. (guodao gd would not work as it would conflict with Guangdong).

[michih]

S1:
Neither sign is a route end sign Can do whatever until someone complains about the (lack of) clinching.

If it would be about clinching, you had to extend S1 to S229. But "complaining about lack of clinchability" is not a relevant indicator. Please truncate to what is indicated by our sources. If OSM is the best source, truncate to where OSM indicates the end of S1.

S26:
(E) for east, as the west portion was first built, then extended eastwards. Per Chinese Wiki, it was named Eastern Extension (exciting!). Makes more sense than a random village name.
6(E) actually is a distinct off ramp from 0/5(E), before the tolled section, it's otherwise distinct from the G15 interchange. 6(E) is aligned to the intersection underneath.

Fine.

S32:
I don't it's extended, they're building a new terminal through it. Chinese mapping sources are limited, would not trust GM for anywhere in China.

Ok. If so, we should truncate S32 to S229.

You cannot actually reverse at that rest stop. Each direction has a separate parking area.

Ok. OSM indicates a legal exit just west of the overpass for westbound traffic. We might add it. However, since it's a toll road, I guess that OSM is wrong on this. What do you think?

System name:
Not quite. I think it makes more sense to keep it short for the highest priority roads, mirroring systems like canon/canons usamt/usamts.

Well, ON's prefix is ON. Here, it's S, not SH. The system abbreviation is just an internal thing. It doesn't affect users. Thus, no need to keep it short. I recommend adding the s since it's the actual prefix. Just like in GD: chngds.

the yellow-topped with white-on-green text (SX, SXX, SXXyy) are the provincial expressway system. SX for radial routes from the capitals, Sxx is the same as the Interstate grid, and SXXyy is the same as Interstate 3-digit routes.

Do 2-digit and 3-digit S road have the same shields? All "yellow-topped with white-on-green text"?

Sxxx and Gxxx (Provincial and National) highways have separate shields and should be their own system.

Sure.

[michih]

You did not update all coords of íntersecting routes. Please check https://courses.teresco.org/metal/hdx/?load=chnsh.nmp

Why is the S36 segement in ZJ(!) in chnsh system? I think it belongs to a future chnzj system.

ZJ S36's 68(G60) should be renamed to G60 or G60/G92.

You missed several proposed changes or implemented them differently:

SH1:
You renamed T1 to Ter1 and T2 to Ter2 but it's clearly signed with 1 and 2 only according to mapillary (and OSM).


S26:
Exit 10 (G1503 wp) missing


S32:
ShuangGangHwy -> S229
Move 6 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.096436&lon=121.757741
Move 30 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.056875&lon=121.524995
Add wp for the rest area where you can turn at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.965958&lon=121.079110 (Liantang service area -> LiaSerArea)
Remove +X777015
81 is off, centerline
ZJ/SH -> SH/ZJ

[Nagamasa]

You did not update all coords of íntersecting routes. Please check https://courses.teresco.org/metal/hdx/?load=chnsh.nmp

Now I have.

Why is the S36 segement in ZJ(!) in chnsh system? I think it belongs to a future chnzj system.

Because chnzjs would have it's own S36!
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BA%AD%E6%9E%AB%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E5%85%AC%E8%B7%AF
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%BE%99%E6%B5%A6%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E5%85%AC%E8%B7%AF

I have also renamed all the Chinese provincial systems.

ZJ S36's 68(G60) should be renamed to G60 or G60/G92.

Per signage here, it is actually numbered Exit 68 going towards G60, even though that is the number is actually G60's exit number to S36: 3:07@ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV16z421i7mD

SH1:
You renamed T1 to Ter1 and T2 to Ter2 but it's clearly signed with 1 and 2 only according to mapillary (and OSM).

It's clearly written in Latin script Terminal 1, Terminal 2, no? Otherwise the Chinese also translates to, 1 Number Terminal, Number 2 Number Terminal.

Looks like I missed checking in S32 and S26.

Ok. OSM indicates a legal exit just west of the overpass for westbound traffic. We might add it. However, since it's a toll road, I guess that OSM is wrong on this. What do you think?

Esri Worldimagery layer looks like it it's not connected. Even if it was, it would only be a service road and not intended for travellers.

[michih]

Why is the S36 segement in ZJ(!) in chnsh system? I think it belongs to a future chnzj system.

Because chnzjs would have it's own S36!
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BA%AD%E6%9E%AB%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E5%85%AC%E8%B7%AF
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%BE%99%E6%B5%A6%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E5%85%AC%E8%B7%AF

Ok.

I have also renamed all the Chinese provincial systems.

Great

ZJ S36's 68(G60) should be renamed to G60 or G60/G92.

Per signage here, it is actually numbered Exit 68 going towards G60, even though that is the number is actually G60's exit number to S36: 3:07@ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV16z421i7mD

Then, it should be plain 68.

SH1:
You renamed T1 to Ter1 and T2 to Ter2 but it's clearly signed with 1 and 2 only according to mapillary (and OSM).

It's clearly written in Latin script Terminal 1, Terminal 2, no? Otherwise the Chinese also translates to, 1 Number Terminal, Number 2 Number Terminal.

Of course, but "Terminal 1" is just a destination. Like "Airport Hotel". "1" is the exit number. As indicated on OSM.


Nevertheless, I already recommended to truncate the route to north of exit 1, since "S1" numbering not indicated on OSM nor GM (nor on mapillary).

[neroute2]

That Chinese text after 1 and 2 means terminal...

[michih]

That Chinese text after 1 and 2 means terminal...

Thanks. But it doesn't matter. The route should be truncated.

[Nagamasa]

ZJ S36's 68(G60) should be renamed to G60 or G60/G92.

Per signage here, it is actually numbered Exit 68 going towards G60, even though that is the number is actually G60's exit number to S36: 3:07@ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV16z421i7mD

(G60) is to indicate where the source of the jump in consecutive naming: https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php#noconc