Author Topic: usaush: United States Historic US Routes  (Read 38630 times)

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Offline si404

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Re: usaush (United States Historic US Routes)
« Reply #165 on: September 30, 2019, 10:52:48 am »
US 20 in the Painesville: I only found one marker (westbound in the westernmost segment). How did you determine the eastern end?
eastbound signs:
approaching intersection with Shankland (about halfway along OH91<->OH174 segment)

westbound signs: outside Champs Barber-Stylists (just after Townline Road, halfway between OH528 and CenRd)
outside Rider's Inn (between OH615 and OH44).

Apparently, the City of Mentor have signed it, but I've not found those signs! Nor have I found this sign (which I believe is in North Perry[/url]. And I can't read this article as the EU is a corporatist and protectionist racket creating regulations that small and foreign (and especially both) businesses cannot afford to comply with.


As it's entirely concurrent with US20, it doesn't have to be kept (ditto the US6 ones). Pretty sure those Monroeville and Norwalk ones were '86ed in the purge of US20, but updated Streetview is a boost. Got confirmation of the Norwalk sign that created that route (which included Monroeville): at Main and Church. The file is still there. I'll modify it as I had it crossing the county and so ends are loose.

Offline yakra

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Re: usaush (United States Historic US Routes)
« Reply #166 on: October 06, 2019, 12:01:10 pm »

Offline Highway63

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Re: usaush (United States Historic US Routes)
« Reply #167 on: October 08, 2019, 06:36:48 pm »
@Highway63, could you address why you relocated Historic US66 in downtown Springfield IL when you adjusted the routing of I-55BL? Did the 66 signs move too?
Per the AASHTO filing:

Quote
The proposed relocation is necessitated by the City of Springfield’s Rail Improvement Project which includes the construction of a railroad underpass near the current Business Route 55 designation (9th St. and Laurel St.). This proposed underpass will require ending the 9th St. pavement that currently carries the Business Route 55 designation. This proposed relocation also places more of the business route within the downtown Springfield business district. Please note the relocated route marking will be placed on streets under the jurisdiction of the City of Springfield.

Unless Illinois is going to dead-end the 66 signage it makes no sense that signs wouldn't be relocated as well.  The closest alternative I would see is to move the northbound-only east-west section to Laurel Street assuming the Laurel/9th intersection remained intact. If someone goes to Springfield AFTER the underpass project is done and sees 66 split from the redirected BL 55 and stay on 9th to some point, I'll change it back.

Offline michih

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #168 on: December 31, 2019, 03:03:15 am »
There is a duplicate label error in OH which cannot be used:

http://travelmapping.net/devel/datacheck.php?show=DUPLICATE_LABEL&sys=usaush

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #169 on: December 31, 2019, 06:08:44 pm »
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Offline si404

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #170 on: December 31, 2019, 06:17:56 pm »
There is a duplicate label error in OH which cannot be used:

http://travelmapping.net/devel/datacheck.php?show=DUPLICATE_LABEL&sys=usaush
Changed in my local copy.
Oh, I did it as well. Might have a conflict. Go with Mapcat's if there is one.

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2019, 10:21:23 pm »
Oh, I did it as well. Might have a conflict. Go with Mapcat's if there is one.
Shouldn't be, since I didn't submit a pull request yet, and yours has already been merged. Or was this not part of what you did on the 31st?
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Offline neroute2

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #172 on: January 18, 2020, 11:16:19 am »
I might as well go through and review these.

Arizona
US 66hisash: "Old Route 66" is signed along 8thSt from both directions of the business loop. Add this as a spur?
US 66hisfla/I-40blfla: EntRd -> PonPkwy
US 66hisfla: 4thSt_Fla -> 4thSt
US 66hisfla: US89_N -> US89/180?
US 66hisjos: extend west to I-40(269)? I don't see anything at that exit, however (but the same is true with I-40(204) at the east end of US 66hisfla).
US 66hiskin: CR1 -> PowLakeRd and move north
US 66hiskin: OatRd -> CR153
US 66hiskin: Oat -> QuaDr
US 66hiskin: QuaDr -> QuaRd (but is this point necessary?)
US 66hiskin: AcqDr -> AquDr
US 66hiskin: ShiRd -> CR223
US 66hiskin: 4thSt_Kin -> 4thSt
US 66hiskin/AZ 66: move MolLn west
US 66hiskin/AZ 66: move HydeParkRd northwest a bit
US 66hiskin: there's nothing at Aud except a random ranch driveway; replace with a necessary shaping point to the east
I-40blsel: ChiSt_* -> US66His_*
US 66hiskin/I-40blsel: 1stAve -> 1stSt
US 66hiskin: RdL-43 is a gated gravel driveway
US 66hislup does not appear to be signed.
US 66hiswil/I-40blwil: GraCanBlvd -> 2ndSt
US 66hiswin/I-40blwin: AZ87_S -> AZ87/99

US 80hisdou/I-10blben: PatAve -> PatSt
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: PatSt -> PatSt_E
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: HorRanRd -> DraMouRan? or move somewhere that's not gated?
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: MainSt -> NacoRd
US 80hisdou: US191_S -> US191/80?
US 80hisdou: 10St_W -> 10thSt_W - but how sure are we that it uses 10th Street? this is how US 80 went, but I can't find any signs at either turn in May 2019 GSV
US 80hisdou: LesCanRd -> AZ80_W?
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: DriWay is a blocked-off driveway; move west to WasAve?
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: move PerSt northeast
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: KheRd doesn't exist
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: there's practically nothing at Ber
US 80hisdou/AZ 80: TexCanRd -> RucCanRd
US 80hisflo: US60(212) -> US60
US 80hisflo/AZ 79: GasLineRd is fenced; move south to CotCanRd
AZ 287's east end is at 79busflo, so AZ79Bus_S -> AZ79Bus and delete the last two entries
US 80hisflo: AZ79/287 -> AZ79_S, AZ79/79Bus -> AZ79_N (and move northeast)
AZ 79: AZ79Bus -> AZ79Bus_S, AZ79Bus/287 -> AZ79Bus_N
US 80hisflo/AZ 79busflo: AZ287_W -> AZ287
US 80hisflo: do we have confirmation that it uses AZ 79busflo? by 1965 (USGS), US 80 was on modern 79, and US 80 Business used Ruggles rather than Butte
US 80hisflo/AZ 79: MarRd doesn't exist; move north to AnyaWay
US 80hisflo/AZ 79: ChiButRd -> PaloVerRd and move north
US 80hisflo: AZ77/79 -> AZ77_N
US 80hismar: do we have confirmation of signage? I can't find any in May 2019 GSV
US 80hismor: ditto (and rename it Dateland if it exists?)
US 80hismor: add OldHwy80_W near the west end
US 80hismor: shift I-8(73) north
US 80hisphe: WTF? this overlaps US 80hisflo; do we have confirmation of signage anywhere but Tucson-Florence Junction?
US 80hiswel: ditto (signage?)
US 80hiswel: WelSt -> WilSt
US 80hiswel: move I-8(54) west to the underpass
US 80hisyum: ditto (signage?)
US 80hisyum/I-8blyum: HarGisPkwy -> GissPkwy
US 80hisyum/I-8blyum: 32ndSt -> 32ndSt_W
US 80hisyum/I-8blyum: move I-8(9) west to the underpass
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 12:44:50 pm by neroute2 »

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #173 on: January 18, 2020, 04:44:18 pm »
California
US 6hissan: US99His_N -> US99His
US 6hissan: ClaRd doesn't exist
US 6hissan: add a point at CA14(6A)
US 6hissan: RowCanRd is a private driveway; move south to RushCanRd
US 6hissan: ShaLaneRd -> ShaLn
US 6hissan: +x22 is unnecessary
US 6hissan: OldSieHwy -> OldSieHwy_E
US 6hissan: AngForHwy -> CRN3? I can't find any signs here though
US 6hissan: AveJ -> CRN5? I can't find any signs here though
US 6hissan: are there any signs past AveA, the county line? If not, truncate it there. If so, truncate it to End.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 10:31:46 am by neroute2 »

Offline oscar

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #174 on: January 18, 2020, 07:38:54 pm »
California
US 6hissan: add a point at CA14(6A)

If you're referring to the direct Sierra Hwy, ramps to/from CA 14, that intersection with the Sierra Highway is really, really close to the existing ViaPri waypoint. I'm also treating those ramps on CA 14 as part of the CA14(6) interchange, even though NB CA 14 has separate 6A (Sierra Hwy.) and 6B (Via Princessa) ramp numbers, so there is no separate 6A point.

Quote
US 6hissan: are there any signs past AveA, the county line? If not, truncate it there. If so, truncate it to End.

If there is no signage on the ~20% north of the county line, that doesn't mean it isn't part of the historic route. I think the signage south of the county line is enough to treat the entire route (to the extent still open to traffic) as signed for our purposes. Especially since historic route fans may be interested in clinching as much of the entire old route as still exists, even if only part has historic route signage.

(I'm not one of those people -- I traveled almost all of the route while figuring out what to do with CA 14U, and contributed my updated route file to usaush before ultimately truncating away most of it for CA 14U.)

In California, as I'm sure you've noticed in your usaca peer review, there are routes signed only in the middle like CA 153, or only at one end.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 07:44:47 pm by oscar »

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #175 on: January 18, 2020, 07:51:42 pm »
US 6hissan: are there any signs past AveA, the county line? If not, truncate it there. If so, truncate it to End.

If there is no signage on the ~20% north of the county line, that doesn't mean it isn't part of the historic route. I think the signage south of the county line is enough to treat the entire route (to the extent still open to traffic) as signed for our purposes. Especially since historic route fans may be interested in clinching as much of the entire old route as still exists, even if only part has historic route signage.

(I'm not one of those people -- I traveled almost all of the route while figuring out what to do with CA 14U, and contributed my updated route file to usaush before ultimately truncating away most of it for CA 14U.)

In California, as I'm sure you've noticed in your usaca peer review, there are routes signed only in the middle like CA 153, or only at one end.
There's a big difference when the local governments are responsible for signage. If Kern County hasn't installed signs, and there are none posted by others in Kern County, that portion doesn't belong here.

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #176 on: January 19, 2020, 10:30:05 am »
US 40hisaub: yeah. That west end. As far as I can tell, the only "eastbound" signage in that area is on Lincoln Way. If you follow the signs westbound, you do in fact end up making a loop, turning right on Commercial and merging into Maple. I suggest that we treat the last two signs on Maple as errors, and assume that the intent was to point traffic over the bridge to I-80 west (the first can be explained as missing a left arrow, and the second...maybe for traffic from I-80 west to Historic US 40 east?). In fact there used to be a sign pointing left after crossing the bridge. So per 1PPI, the only change to make is removing the extra AubFolRd_S point (and AubFolRd_N -> AubFolRd).
US 40hisaub: LinWay_S -> LinWay_W, LinWay_N -> LinWay_E
US 40hisaub: the route between ForRd and BellRd is wrong per signs 1 2 3; sign 4 probably has the wrong arrow. So delete I-80(122) and instead add I-80(121), AubRavRd_W, and BowUCRd.
US 40hisaub: NieRd -> NeiRd
US 40hisaub: add PlaHilRd_N and AppRd_W the make the routing clear near I-80(125)?
US 40hisaub: HidMeaRd -> HidMeaWay? and move northeast

US 40hisaub: continue straight past I-80(129):
WPaoLn_N http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.035028&lon=-120.975652
I-80(130) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.034436&lon=-120.975206
PaoLn_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.033828&lon=-120.974498
PonWay_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.035353&lon=-120.972358
CanWay http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.043086&lon=-120.973291
I-80(131) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.044698&lon=-120.974091
Point 130 on I-80 needs to move to match. It's not signed beyond PonWay_S, so maybe don't include I-80(131).

US 40hiscol: delete; I don't see any signage except that mentioned above as part of US 40hisaub
US 40hisdix: maybe delete MidRd, since PittSchRd is the city limits and signage is apparently by the city?
US 40hisdix: I-80(66A) -> I-80
US 40hisros: I don't see any signs west of HoweAve, so delete I-80BL(11)?
US 40hisros: CA244 -> ToI-80(94B)?
US 40hisros: GreLn -> CRE14
US 40hisros: add GraSt (former 65 via Oak to the underpass) in downtown Roseville?
US 40hisros: GalBlvd -> WilRd
US 40hisros: add EurRd_E after I-80(105A)?
US 40hisros: is this actually signed all the way to Auburn? It's well signed in Roseville, Rocklin, and Loomis, but I see nothing after that. So end it at ToRipRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.836235&lon=-121.178969 ?

US 40hissac: there is no signage and no defined traversable route between GraSt (note the reconfiguration just east of there, which removed the signs east of the underpass) and the capitol area. This needs to be split in two. The first eastbound sign in Sacto is on N after 9th, and the last westbound I can find is on 12th after F. But someone following actual historic US 40 (12th-F-15th) would not see the latter, since it's not on a road that was ever US 40! So what to do? How can we put the line in the middle if there's no westbound route? In any case, everything west of BSt needs to be redone.
US 40hissac: I think it's more appropriate to put it on Del Paso Boulevard east of 46A(CA160) (which should be CA160(46A) anyway). There were only a few years that US 40 went over the railroad on modern 160 and then exited onto Del Paso; the overpass was built almost simultaneously with the freeway to the east. So delete 46B(CA160) and DelPasoBlvd_S -> CA160(46B)?
US 40hissac: El Camino east of Auburn was never US 40. But there's a sign on it. Ugh. No change.

US 40histru: do we have any confirmation of signage near the west end? There's no GSV (or other street view site) coverage west of I-80(168), and I don't see any signs on GSV west of I-80(171) (meaning we'd end it at 168 if there's nothing else).
US 40histru: StaLn doesn't exist
US 40histru: where does the JudAcc name come from?
US 40histru: is the easternmost sign at I-80(186)? If so, we should probably end it at GleDr, since Donner Pass Road east of there was never US 40.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 11:20:08 am by neroute2 »

Offline si404

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Re: usaush (United States Historic US Routes)
« Reply #177 on: January 19, 2020, 11:58:31 am »
For Sacramento Capitol Area, just to flag up this post for a refresher.
I believe, when drafting the route, CA160 still extended there, so I just copied that (I have no other idea why I would have put a shaping point near Alkali Flat) - presumably only checking eastbound as it disagrees with westbound.

Eastbound reassurance signs on: Capitol Ave near the railway bridge, N just before 15th, 16th just after N, Del Paso near Globe.

Westbound signs on: Del Paso near Baxter, 12th at Fat Alley, Capitol Ave near the railway bridge.

We can infer Tower Bridge as being part of the route, for obvious reasons. But how to get to it from 12th/G or from it to N/15th? Assuming there's no radical difference between the routes for each direction, we can assume Hist 40 comes down 12th to L. The question has to be (other than needing to fix the route north of downtown) whether it takes the L-N pair between 9th and 3rd, or whether it takes the Capitol Mall. I gather the Capitol Mall was part of 40 (pictures of old postcards supposedly showing signage), but if you went L or N instead, then you can fudge it and call it clinched!

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaush (United States Historic US Routes)
« Reply #178 on: January 19, 2020, 12:32:50 pm »
For Sacramento Capitol Area, just to flag up this post for a refresher.
We can infer Tower Bridge as being part of the route, for obvious reasons. But how to get to it from 12th/G or from it to N/15th? Assuming there's no radical difference between the routes for each direction, we can assume Hist 40 comes down 12th to L. The question has to be (other than needing to fix the route north of downtown) whether it takes the L-N pair between 9th and 3rd, or whether it takes the Capitol Mall. I gather the Capitol Mall was part of 40 (pictures of old postcards supposedly showing signage), but if you went L or N instead, then you can fudge it and call it clinched!
Since this post, signs on Capitol near the railway bridge have been removed (and Capitol is now one-way eastbound there). I also found a sign at N/9th.

The last pre-one-way-pair routing of US 40 was Capitol-9th-N-16th. When one-way streets were implemented in the mid-1950s, westbound was moved to 12th-F-15th, rejoining eastbound at N (and using N-9th-Capitol). In the early 1960s, the one-block jog was moved from 9th to 7th (eastbound) and 8th (westbound). A temporary alignment was signed in 1965, using Capitol-3rd-Q-16th eastbound and 12th-F-15th-P-5th-Capitol westbound, and the 1967 official is the first to show US 40 signs removed.

The problem is that there's no good option for signing westbound 40, since all but the last temporary alignment have streets going the wrong way. The city seems to have given up and posted a sign at 12th and F, where it doesn't belong. And eastbound has two reasonable options and a third possible (temporary) one, which we know they didn't choose because of the signs on N. But we still have no knowledge of the intended street to jog on (7th or 9th), so we cannot map a route. "you can fudge it and call it clinched" is not acceptable. And the westbound route is unknown because they chose to place a sign where US 40 never went. All we can do is end westbound after that sign and only map eastbound around the capitol. Here's my suggestion for that area:

9thSt http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.576210&lon=-121.496730
NSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.573652&lon=-121.487149
ISt http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.579951&lon=-121.487653
ESt http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.584338&lon=-121.485765
BSt http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.589806&lon=-121.483383

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaush: United States Historic US Routes
« Reply #179 on: January 19, 2020, 01:20:05 pm »
US 66hisazu: the westernmost sign is at Avenue 26, not 110. So move it and rename it Ave26 (or US99His? but that doesn't seem to be signed anywhere nearby)
US 66hisazu: delete ToCA710? Move east and rename PasAve?
US 66hisazu: MadBlvd -> MadSt
US 66hisazu: EFooBlvd -> FooBlvd_E
US 66hisazu: CitAve_W -> CitAve_Azu, CitAve -> CitAve_Fon
US 66hisazu: SanDiaAve -> SanDimAve
US 66hisazu: add CamAve to match CA 66
US 66hisazu: CA66_E -> 5thSt_E? CA 66 doesn't seem to be signed here
US 66hisazu: BasRd -> BasSt
US 66hisazu: 21St -> 21stSt
US 66hisazu: PalmAve -> InsRd, move southeast
US 66hisazu: move KeeRd southeast
US 66hisbar: move points to match I-15blvic
US 66hisbar: HerWay -> BryRd
US 66hisbar: HogRd -> HodRd
US 66hisbar: LSt -> AveL (or I-15BLBar_S?)
US 66hisbar: delete MonRd_S (which should be MonRd); 66 stays on I-40 to exit 1 (and maybe split it at I-40, since I can't find any signs indicating an overlap)
US 66hisbar: add a point at NatTraHwy_W
US 66hisbar: PisRd -> PisCraRd
US 66hisbar: add points at CruRd_N and LudRd on either side of I-40(50)?
US 66hisbar: NatTrlHwy_E -> NatTraHwy_E? (since it's Trails, not Trail)
US 66hishol: SanMonBlvd_S -> SanMonBlvd_W
US 66hishol: RocAve -> CenAve and move to match CA 2
US 66hishol: AlvSt -> CA2
US 66hishol: LilTer -> DouSt and move southeast
US 66hishol: ElyParkAve -> VinScuAve
US 66hishol: Bdwy_S -> Bro_S?
US 66hisnee: RivRd -> NeeHwy_N
US 66hisnee: add a point at TSt so it loops south of I-40?
US 66hisnee: ToAZ95 -> NeeHwy_E
US 66hisspa: should we extend this south to HunDr and north to the city limits at ColSt?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 09:14:56 pm by neroute2 »