usaush: United States Historic US Routes

[si404]

Who's putting these together?

I did about a year ago (well for '66 it was - US20 was more recently).

On the portions where the historic route overlaps an active route, are waypoints being taken from existing files?

Yes, though there's places where I've had to tweak things (eg add extra points if there wasn't a point where the usush route left a state route), which I didn't do with the state highways. IIRC, there's maybe 20 such points in IL/MO and perhaps 30 in total - it's hard to know exactly at the moment as the easiest ways to find out (broken concurrencies, etc) won't happen unless the system is preview/active.

If so, should concurrencies automatically show up yet? Or can that not happen until the system is activated?

Not until it's preview, so a 0% score is correct.

I guess I don't know how we know when this is substantially complete.

True, but I'm pretty sure I've got most of them, and we can always add more as people spot them or they get signed (more so the latter, as I look at various groups' sites and they tend to have pictures for every new section signed) - a quick check suggests I'm missing US20 in Termopolis, WY (which shouldn't take long to add)

I doubt there's an authoritative list out there somewhere we can refer to.

Sure, but the same is the case for various other systems - eg truck routes, several European systems, etc.

I know it's not an ideal solution, but could we call our selection authoritative and add to it as more new historic routes are "found"? I know it would count as original research in the Wikipedia sense, but do we have a problem with the US Historic roads being a little beta all the time?

I don't have a problem with this, though I skew fairly strongly towards P on Myers-Briggs (among other factors that mean similar things), and so a system that might not be fully complete, making a couple of statistics not very authoritative (eg percentage of system clinched) doesn't bother me anyway near as much as I'm sure it would bother other people.

[vdeane]

I'm not sure what else could be done for Historic US Routes, unless there's a log somewhere we don't know about.

[Highway63]

The IA Historic US 20 that right now is confined to Dubuque County can be stretched nearly across the state to Early. Use Olde Castle Road, present 20 to the next intersection into Dyersville, and then the rest of the pre-freeway route should be easy to follow. (Or look at the Iowa DOT map archive.) I'd stick with the ca. 1960s route; the 1926-58 route from Cedar Falls to Jesup has at least two breaks in it, and the 1986-2000/2003 segment via D19 and IA 14 doesn't hold much significance IMO.

IA Historic US 6 can get an Altoona-Newton segment too (F48).

I can make the files if you want.

[si404]

The IA Historic US 20 that right now is confined to Dubuque County can be stretched nearly across the state to Early. Use Olde Castle Road, present 20 to the next intersection into Dyersville, and then the rest of the pre-freeway route should be easy to follow.

Is it signed?

(Or look at the Iowa DOT map archive.) I'd stick with the ca. 1960s route; the 1926-58 route from Cedar Falls to Jesup has at least two breaks in it, and the 1986-2000/2003 segment via D19 and IA 14 doesn't hold much significance IMO.

Surely we have what is signed, not a specific year?

IA Historic US 6 can get an Altoona-Newton segment too (F48).

Again, is it signed? A single sign would be enough to please me.

I gather there are (given the cost given, 2 or 3?) signs in Atlantic http://usroute6iowa.org/node/22, so the Redfield can presumably be extended along US6 (and renamed for the larger city?) a few miles.

I can make the files if you want.

Thanks.

[Highway63]

Oh, I completely misread your intent then. If the old routes have to be SIGNED, then the only highway in Iowa that qualifies is US 6. I thought you were looking for significant segments of bypassed road that one could follow independently, since old 20 in Dubuque County isn't signed, nor is 6 on Broadway in Council Bluffs (unless that's changed since I was last there).

I believe, but am not 100% sure, that Historic 6 has been signed all or mostly all across the state, even where it overlaps with existing 6 - there's a Historic 6 shield with 6 at the IA 48 intersection west of Atlantic. (But it could be only Cass County.) That's only happened in the last couple of years so Google Street View hasn't caught up. Polk County would be a potentially large exception because 6 is partially apart from 80, and the question becomes which route to sign, existing 6 or the really old route that went into downtown Des Moines.

I know old 6 is signed from 63/6 to Ladora (F29).

In Iowa and Illinois the route of the Lincoln Highway is signed, but not (in Iowa's case) Historic US 30.

[si404]

Oh, I completely misread your intent then. If the old routes have to be SIGNED, then the only highway in Iowa that qualifies is US 6. I thought you were looking for significant segments of bypassed road that one could follow independently, since old 20 in Dubuque County isn't signed,

https://www.facebook.com/HistoricUSRoute20IA has a clear picture of a Historic US20 sign on Y21.

nor is 6 on Broadway in Council Bluffs (unless that's changed since I was last there).

GMSV June 15.

End points might not be exact, and routes aren't fully up-to-date, but I've found signs for all routes in the browser.

I know old 6 is signed from 63/6 to Ladora (F29).

Along current US6?

[Bickendan]

Apparently I-5 runs on old US 99 in Wolf Creek, Oregon... https://goo.gl/maps/iFGe1X5BBqv
No sign of Hist US 99 shields, though -- I might have to swing down south to investigate.

[Highway63]

https://www.facebook.com/HistoricUSRoute20IA has a clear picture of a Historic US20 sign on Y21.

That's a temporary sign Mr. Farr put up while he was traveling to promote his site. I e-mailed him about it. If you look closely, "Iowa" is taped onto it. There is no comprehensive signage of Historic 20 in Dubuque County, although Farr is trying to get some.

nor is 6 on Broadway in Council Bluffs (unless that's changed since I was last there).

GMSV June 15.[/quote]
That's new, then.

End points might not be exact, and routes aren't fully up-to-date, but I've found signs for all routes in the browser.

I know old 6 is signed from 63/6 to Ladora (F29).

Along current US6?

If you mean, are there signs pointing to old 6 from current 6, yes.

[si404]

https://www.facebook.com/HistoricUSRoute20IA has a clear picture of a Historic US20 sign on Y21.

That's a temporary sign Mr. Farr put up while he was traveling to promote his site. I e-mailed him about it. If you look closely, "Iowa" is taped onto it. There is no comprehensive signage of Historic 20 in Dubuque County, although Farr is trying to get some.

Oh yes, I hadn't realised that taping. IA is your state, if I recall correctly in my current state (just finished crewing a beer festival, and drinking too much of the leftovers), therefore feel free to delete/extend/change files in IA, etc as you see fit.

[oscar]

There are very well-signed segments of Historic US 40 in Dixon CA and Sacramento CA, not included in the California HistUS40 segments already in the HB, I don't know the full extent of those segments, or even if they are separate, but IIRC they are on West A Street, N Adams Street, and CA 113 in Dixon, and on 16th Street in downtown Sacramento. That Sacramento segment is currently covered by the HB as part of CA 160, but not for long (at least south of the American River) as explained in the usaca thread.

[si404]

The Dixon bit goes down Porter Road, but I can't see any signs on Midway Road. I had a dummy file for Sacramento, but had forgot about it. With the recent GMSV update I've been able to work out the extent of signage to add it.

[si404]

I've synced up points so that these routes intersect properly with other routes. I've not fixed NMPs.

This means that various I-, US and state route files have been changed slightly. I've pinged the relevant people via Github (apart from Jeff M, who isn't on there). Please check you are OK with the changes I'm proposing.

Jeff M: IA, IL, MO
Mapcat: OH
Oscar: CA, NM
Rickmansfast67 / theFXexpert: GA
Yakra: MA, NE, NY, OK

[yakra]

Please check you are OK with the changes I'm proposing.
Yakra: MA, NE, NY, OK

I'm not sure how wild I am about US20His style labels in general, but I'll let that matter go for the time being...

OK:
The US66HisWea changes effectively revert a change I made a while back. I removed the point on I-40, as there was no junction there; the point wasn't on the US66His roadway. US66His uses just the northern frontage road here, but northbound OK58Med uses the northern frontage road, and southbound OK58Med uses the southern one. Thus I-40 & OK58Med intersect at (35.536352°, -98.575079°), but I decided a different solution was in order for US66His. I went with one OK58 point (where OK58Med crosses SB, and leaves the concurrency NB), and then added the other point at N2480 for those travelers who'd passed through the area on northbound OK58Med, and would want to mark off the corresponding section of US66His as clinched.

US69: US66His -> US66His_Nar. Fine for US59, as it's the only US66His point on that route.

OK66: US66His_LkOW & US66His_LkOE -> US66His_Yuk & US66His_Okl

NE:
US20: might as well leave OldSmiSDr_E out. It's a minor one-way park road, not needed for shaping. (I just recently added in SolCreRd per a request in for forum for a point in the state park; that should suffice.) As for the existing OldSmiSDr_W, that was just added in as a shaping point. Its name is not up to current labeling standards; it should probably be SmiCanDr instead.

[si404]

I'm not sure how wild I am about US20His style labels in general, but I'll let that matter go for the time being...

What would you prefer? Very happy to change where possible. oscar wanted road names, so I changed them to that.

NE:
US20: might as well leave OldSmiSDr_E out. It's a minor one-way park road, not needed for shaping.

It was needed for the intersecting route, not shaping - somewhere some time ago, I saw fit to include the park road due to signage. However I can't find it now and I'm pulling the route back and dropping it.

As for the existing OldSmiSDr_W, that was just added in as a shaping point. Its name is not up to current labeling standards; it should probably be SmiCanDr instead.

relabelled, along with the other suggestions.

[yakra]

What would you prefer? Very happy to change where possible. oscar wanted road names, so I changed them to that.

Not sure I follow. Road names, like ElmSt & MainSt? Or route names? I see US66His etc. in the CA & NM commits.

As for the existing OldSmiSDr_W, that was just added in as a shaping point. Its name is not up to current labeling standards; it should probably be SmiCanDr instead.

relabelled, along with the other suggestions.

I see OldSmiDr right now. Mind changing it to SmiCanDr, since you'll be the next one to have a commie LOL commit merged in for that file?
Thanks for making all those fixes.