canqc: Quebec Provincial Highways

[mapcat]

Please take it if you've got time. You're obviously paying a lot more attention to what's going on up there than I am.

It's not going active until someone does a peer review, and no one has indicated any interest in that in 2 years.

[froggie]

Regarding QC 136, English translations of Turcot Interchange construction info suggest A-720 won't officially become part of QC 136 until the Turcot Interchange construction is completed.  So probably a couple more years.

And speaking of QC 136, there's a question on the AARoads forum as to where the "eastern end of QC 136" in Quebec City is.  The following is directly quoted from them:

I traveled the tunnel with the reversible lane that some sources (Google Maps, Quebec 511) say are part of QC 136, not not others (Apple Maps, OpenStreetMap, Travel Mapping).

[vdeane]

As per my post on AARoads:

The Québec Atlas des transports shows QC 136 as ending at the same place as shown in TravelMapping.  The rest is reference route 42330.

[si404]

It's not going active until someone does a peer review, and no one has indicated any interest in that in 2 years.

I can do it

[si404]

QC101
 - border marked on OSM is the other side of the island to the point. Is OSM wrong, or does the border point need moving (also ON63)?
 - Ch7eRang for Chemin des 7e-et-8e-Rangs isn't quite right: Ch7eRan?
 - shaping point north of QC117_W not on the highway as depicted on OSM (also QC117 and TCHKir)
 - RuePri_N and RuePri perhaps need some thinking about suffixes
 - QC117_E -> BlvdRid_E (or whatever the abbrev for Boulevard is in QC) due to new bypass rerouting QC117
 - RueSag -> RueSag_S
 - ChGolf ought to be in the middle of the roundabout (and renamed QC117_E)
 - add point at Ave1e (leads to QC111 point Rang2e)

QC104
 - should QC217 be merged with A-30 (one-point per interchange)?
 - RuePri_E -> RuePri

QC105
 - ChLacSteM -> ChLSM? ChLacSMar?
 - ChMar is slightly off where OSM has the intersection
 - ChPtCom is slightly off where OSM has the intersection (and the road is called Chemin du Calumet on OSM)


QC107
 - would ChBancGris be better replaced by a point at ChRie?


QC108
 - additional point at Rue Main in North Hatley as important and leads to QC143 at ChShe
 - add point at Chemin Glenday in preparation for A-410 construction opening?
 - RangFon -> ChFon?

QC109
 - ChLacCel is off both highway and intersection according to OSM
 - is Aur worth keeping?
 - Aur and DJP source for names?

[oscar]

QC101
 - border marked on OSM is the other side of the island to the point. Is OSM wrong, or does the border point need moving (also ON63)?

EDIT: @rickmastfan67, is the ON63 border point based on MTO shapefiles? Some other online maps that show the border, place it where we have it in the QC101 and ON63 route files. OTOH, Atlas des Transports (Transport Quebec's online map of its highways, which vdeane and I have been using lately to nail down Autoroute endpoints) seems to place the QC 101 endpoint at the border as shown in OSM. GMSV also indicates that Ontario route and other signage begins just west of the border shown by OSM. Both indicate that ON 63's endpoint should be moved as si404 suggests, along with QC 101's.

- QC117_E -> BlvdRid_E (or whatever the abbrev for Boulevard is in QC) due to new bypass rerouting QC117

For both canqc and canqca, we've been changing Blvd to Boul wherever we come across it.

Atlas des Transports seems to disagree with OSM on whether QC 117 has been rerouted in Rouyn-Noranda (which would also affect the TCH). It puts a QC 117 marker on the supposed new alignment, but a popup when you click on the roadway identifies it as a local road, while the 117 alignment we have in the HB is classified as "nationale" along with the rest of QC 117. (In Quebec, when something is called "nationale", the nation in question usually is Quebec rather than Canada.) Also, GMSV May 2018 imagery shows QC 117 peeling away from QC 101 at the Ch. Bradley/Boul. Rideau intersection, where we have it. Absent stronger evidence that a more recent reroute has occurred, I will leave QC 117 alone (and also not go back anytime soon to field-check/reclinch that part of the TCH -- not with two known impending TCH de-clinches in SK and PEI for me to deal with).

I'll follow up on other comments later.

[mapcat]

@mapcat and @rickmastfan67, is the border point based on MTO and/or Transports Quebec shapefiles? Some other online maps that show the border, place it where we have it in the QC101 and ON63 route files.

I don't recall investigating it when I drafted the file and likely just went with the point from ON 63.

[rickmastfan67]

QC101
 - border marked on OSM is the other side of the island to the point. Is OSM wrong, or does the border point need moving (also ON63)?

EDIT: @rickmastfan67, is the ON63 border point based on MTO shapefiles? Some other online maps that show the border, place it where we have it in the QC101 and ON63 route files. OTOH, Atlas des Transports (Transport Quebec's online map of its highways, which vdeane and I have been using lately to nail down Autoroute endpoints) seems to place the QC 101 endpoint at the border as shown in OSM. GMSV also indicates that Ontario route and other signage begins just west of the border shown by OSM. Both indicate that ON 63's endpoint should be moved as si404 suggests, along with QC 101's.

If I remember correctly, it was based on what Google had back then when Ontario was originally drafted.

Also, some maps show something weird.  Take a look at the "Esri WorldTopoMap" layer in the HB.  Shows the OSM border, but shows QC-101 shields on the island.   Yet the "Esri WorldStreetMap" layer from the same people, show the border on the other side of the island. The "Here" maps also show it where we currently have it.   Aye-yi-yi-yi-yi!

But since I've found the 'END ON-63' shield on the island, I can get behind the OSM boarder location.  Mapcat, pick a place you want the boarder to be, post it here, and I'll update my copy of ON-63 with it after making tweaks for the island addition.

[oscar]

Mapcat, pick a place you want the boarder to be, post it here, and I'll update my copy of ON-63 with it after making tweaks for the island addition.

I suggest http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.711643&lon=-79.100525

[mapcat]

Do whatever you want. I'm no longer editing this set.

[vdeane]

Atlas des Transports seems to disagree with OSM on whether QC 117 has been rerouted in Rouyn-Noranda (which would also affect the TCH). It puts a QC 117 marker on the supposed new alignment, but a popup when you click on the roadway identifies it as a local road, while the 117 alignment we have in the HB is classified as "nationale" along with the rest of QC 117. (In Quebec, when something is called "nationale", the nation in question usually is Quebec rather than Canada.) Also, GMSV May 2018 imagery shows QC 117 peeling away from QC 101 at the Ch. Bradley/Boul. Rideau intersection, where we have it. Absent stronger evidence that a more recent reroute has occurred, I will leave QC 117 alone (and also not go back anytime soon to field-check/reclinch that part of the TCH -- not with two known impending TCH de-clinches in SK and PEI for me to deal with).

I think MTQ decided to move where they put updates to the Atlas des transports data - the page on their site links to a newer viewer that is much faster and has more recent data (the older one was missing the last A-70 extension, for example), but which only covers roads maintained by MTQ, the federal government, or through a public-private partnership (I have a separate bookmark for the older viewer for that reason).  The newer viewer has shapefiles for all of the bypass (identified as RTSS 0011709108000C), but only part of the old route (identified as RTSS 2211701020000C).  Making things more interesting, the basemap doesn't have the bypass at all and shows QC 117 on the old route, whereas the old viewer seems to have an updated basemap.

Neither offers any hints as to the current state of QC 391.  Nor does OSM.

We might have to wait for updated street view for a definitive answer as to what is going on.

[oscar]

QC101
 - Ch7eRang for Chemin des 7e-et-8e-Rangs isn't quite right: Ch7eRan?

GMSV shows it signed as Rang Maltais east of QC 101, and Rang Ponteroy west of QC 101. Other online maps agree. I'll go with RangMal. I think I'll also stop here on second-guessing OSM on street names.

- shaping point north of QC117_W not on the highway as depicted on OSM (also QC117 and TCHKir)

Close enough. As I've said in other contexts, while I can be (overly?) perfectionist on placement of labeled waypoints, I don't view shaping points as a high-precision exercise, especially when they're shared with two other route files.

- RuePri_N and RuePri perhaps need some thinking about suffixes

Could change RuePri_N to RuePri_Ned(elec). The other RuePri (which might be named something other than Rue Principale, per other online mapping) can stay as is, especially since that point and its label are shared with two other route files (TCHKir, QC 117).

"Rue Principale" (Main Street) is such a common street name in Quebec, I'm kind of surprised it appears in only two waypoints on QC 101.

- RueSag -> RueSag_S
 - ChGolf ought to be in the middle of the roundabout (and renamed QC117_E)
 - add point at Ave1e (leads to QC111 point Rang2e)

Deferring action on the QC 117/TCHKir relocation for now, per vdeane's post.

The others to go into my local copy along with other changes previously noted, and pulled in with my next pull request (probably in Saskatchewan in the next few days).

I'll follow up later on the other comments. I have other things on my plate right now, so your comments might outrun my responses.

[oscar]

QC109
 - ChLacCel is off both highway and intersection according to OSM

Fixed in my local copy.

- is Aur worth keeping?
 - Aur and DJP source for names?

Satellite view indicates something is going on at those locations, but nothing in our menu of online maps (or Google Maps) indicates what is there. @mapcat, do you remember what's there and your source (shapefiles, perhaps)?

The source might also help with the waypoints for other intersections with named roads in that region, where our usual online maps show only 800-series or higher route numbers (like route 812 at waypoint RteJoiPoi), or no name or number at all, or not even an intersection (as with MineGeaDor, PAMMCamp, or SiteBraMcL).

Removing Aur and DJP would create a visible distance error of about 25 miles. Much larger errors are common in our Arctic jurisdictions. I would not be desperate to avoid VD errors, in such a remote area of Quebec.

[oscar]

QC104
 - should QC217 be merged with A-30 (one-point per interchange)?
 - RuePri_E -> RuePri

I would leave QC 104 as is:

-- I've always felt that an exception to "one point per interchange" is appropriate where two TM-mapped routes intersect with a third at different places within an interchange, so we have clearer graph connections
-- RuePri_E would have a corresponding RuePri_W point where it meets QC 104, except it also meets QC235 there

QC105
 - ChLacSteM -> ChLSM? ChLacSMar?

Or better still, ChLacSM.

- ChMar is slightly off where OSM has the intersection
 - ChPtCom is slightly off where OSM has the intersection (and the road is called Chemin du Calumet on OSM)

Both fixed in my local copy.

QC107
 - would ChBancGris be better replaced by a point at ChRie?

Yup. While I'm at it, I'd also remove ChEqu, an intersection with a minor road, not needed for shaping or otherwise.

QC108
 - additional point at Rue Main in North Hatley as important and leads to QC143 at ChShe
 - add point at Chemin Glenday in preparation for A-410 construction opening?
 - RangFon -> ChFon?

There's already a ChFon in the route file. ChFon is needed (for shaping, and in a town centre), while RangFon is not (and also is not in use), so I would delete it. Other QC 108 changes going into my local file, except there's already a RueMain in another town, so both the old and new RueMain points will get suffixes.

BTW, the TCH/QC 117 bypass of Rouyn-Noranda, discussed above, opened last month, as mentioned in AARoads (missed that while I was on the road). https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1257041/la-voie-de-contournement-de-rouyn-noranda-officiellement-ouverte So more changes to QC 101, as well as to the TCH and QC 117 files, will be needed before I pull in this batch of peer review changes.

si404, that part of QC 117 is a clone of the TCH file, which has been updated several times since I took over maintenance from Tim. I think further review of the concurrent part of QC 117 would be optional.

[mapcat]

QC109 waypoint Aur is the road to the Aurvista gold mine, and DJL is a gravel road with a sign saying DJL (the name of a construction company). The points certainly aren't important and, like many others in the far north, were included only to minimize VD errors.