canqc: Quebec Provincial Highways

[si404]

the shorter bits of QC138:

QC138 (Chevery)
 - OSM shows a section of QC138 at Chevery. Is this part of it? or is it ditched as unsigned?

QC138Tet
 - route diverted away from ferry now towards construction linking with Tab section?

QC138Tab
 - road extended eastward from End, and westwards from a couple of km south - is most of this route now not QC138?

QC138Bla
 - add point for RueJeanBai in Vieux-Fort as a better point for it than End
 - RivStPFry is off OSM, and the name is surely wrong

[vdeane]

QC136
 - does this extend to Av des Hotels (west end) and/or A-440 (east end)?

Québec has two sources of route information - the newer IGO2 - Données Québec, with current data but which only shows roads maintained by MTQ (and the federal government and P3 agreements) and the older Atlas des transports which doesn't have as recent data and is slower, but shows all roads.  As per these sources, the TM endpoints for QC 136 are correct.

[si404]

QC132:
 - ChLar -> ChLar_N
 - RueFraBRa -> RueFarBra
 - ChStBer -> BoulLery_N or BoulReneLev_W
 - move A-20(89) to cover both sets of slips, rather than just the west-facing?
 - should A-xx(yy) format be yy(xx) format as this route has exit numbers?
 - add point(s) for BoulTra/BoulEra as leads to A-30 exit 138
 - A-20(521) -> RteMor?
 - add point for RueLau as leads to A-20 exit 606
 - add point for MteeIndCom as leads to A-20 exit 614
 - add point for AveAmo in Matane (leads to QC195 point)
 - replace RueDes with nearby RueRiv or RuePri as more major roads
 - ChJeu -> RteJeu?
 - QC197_N <-> QC197_S
 - route around BoulCapRos seems to have been replaced with new alignment
 - curve at Pabos Mills oxbowed (and the straightening just south is under-construction)
 - RteVieMou -> ChVieMou?
 - add point for RueCha in Paspebiac Ouest as major road to the interior of the peninsular?
 - RteMigWaf -> RteWaf?
 - RueEco -> RueBel?
 - add point for ChePVL at Cross Point Station as major road to the interior of the peninsular?
 - replace shaping point after ToNB11 with visible point at RueSau
 - ChMou -> ChBraNord?
 - is Parc necessary? Does it need which park it is? Would it be better in the middle of the two junctions, rather than at one?
 - ChRou -> RtePri?
 - RteStEdm -> RteLacPit?
 - A-20_End -> A-20(641)?

general points being off OSM a little and all that.

[oscar]

QC132:

...

 - move A-20(89) to cover both sets of slips, rather than just the west-facing?

A-20 has three "sets" of slips, counting the direct ramp for eastbound A-20 traffic from Autoroute Rene-Levesque to Autoroute Jean-Lesage, as well as the set for A-20 east to A-25 west and both A-25 east and A-20 west from Jean-Lesage to Rene-Levesque (where the A-20(89) point is positioned), and the set from QC 132 west to A-25 west and from A-25 east and A-20 west to QC 132 east. ISTM that the existing waypoint positioning best covers all three sets of ramps.

- add point for MteeIndCom as leads to A-20 exit 614

Tim and I used Mon as the abbreviation for Montee in TCH waypoints. Mapcat used Mtee instead. That difference is discussed earlier in this thread. Care to weigh in?

I haven't changed Mtee to Mon in canqc, and won't unless you think I should.

- A-20_End -> A-20(641)?

OSM's "exit" number 641 seems not to be signed in the field. Other roundabouts that are Autoroute termini seem not to be assigned exit numbers (east end of the recently-extended A-70, and south end of A-73, come to mind). So I'd leave this alone, as well as the corresponding A-20 waypoint.

[si404]

Tim and I used Mon as the abbreviation for Montee in TCH waypoints. Mapcat used Mtee instead. That difference is discussed earlier in this thread. Care to weigh in?

I haven't changed Mtee to Mon in canqc, and won't unless you think I should.

We should either have them all as Mtee, or all as Mon - that's pretty clear.

I'm not as au fait with Quebecois roads (I don't recall seeing such a road name in France - if they do use it, it isn't common) as I would like to be in order to choose which.

[yakra]

Tim and I used Mon as the abbreviation for Montee in TCH waypoints. Mapcat used Mtee instead. That difference is discussed earlier in this thread. Care to weigh in?

Here to here.

I haven't changed Mtee to Mon in canqc, and won't unless you think I should.

We should either have them all as Mtee, or all as Mon - that's pretty clear.

Agree that standardizing is a Good Thing. I'm agnostic on which abbreviation is the "better" one; no personal preference.
That said, switching to consistently use Mtee would be easier -- there are 57 labels in QC starting with Mtee, and only 2 starting with Mon:
QC/cantch/qc.tchkir.wpt: MonSou http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.546215&lon=-75.428728
QC/cantch/qc.tchkir.wpt: MonMcG http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.557175&lon=-75.297294
If we do decide that Mon is the better option and want to switch to use that instead, that could be done programatically; I can help out with that process if needed.

[si404]

QC161
 - RueLau -> RueLau_N

QC162
 - 8eRang seems a little minor. A point at Rang Anctil or no point might be better.
 - replace shaping points with visible points? northern shaping point (also QC263) near Rang Saint-Francois, which leads to point on QC218

QC165
 - fine other than the general slightly off OSM issue

QC167
 - Lac points are mostly minor. perhaps some can be purged?
 - RteObe is Route Forestiere 212 so relabel with number? There's a couple of other ones like this, but the road names actually appear on mapping.
 - HERE and ERSI imagery shows route following what's marked on OSM, and no road where trace diverges from OSM route between LacAlb and ToAerMat.

QC169
 - replace RuePlo and shaping point next to it with points at either end of RueStAnd (more major, replacing shaping point with visible)
 - add point for BoulSacCoe just to the north of Saint-Felicien (leads to QC167 point). The point at the south end is labelled BoulSacCoe_S, but there is no corresponding north point, suggesting this was strangely removed.
 - QC373_N and QC373_S -> QC373_S and QC373_N (and on QC373 the labels are backwards too). QC373_N is signed as NORD, but that's because it's at the south end and that's how we label it.
 - RteVau -> ChVau?
 - RueEdoNiq_N and RueStJean_S seem like they are wrong. Looking it actually seems likes the signed directions swap somewhere between the 2 QC373 points. Which suggest actually it's not a p-shape but a y-shape where the bits meet at the top. Perhaps change them to _W and _E absolute directions rather than the last 15 points being treated (as signed) as north-to-south rather than south-to-north like the rest of the route.
 - add point south of Alma at RteLac (leads to a QC170 point)

QC170
 - fine other than the general slightly off OSM issue

QC171
 - fine other than the general slightly off OSM issue

QC172
 - RteNilJean -> ChNilJean?
 - area around QC175 is odd. The point seems to both be in the correct place for where the mainline changes numbers, but also very much off due to junction to the south being 3/4 of the movements.

QC173
 - is 2eKen necessary? If so, is that its name?

QC175
 - AvEgl -> AvEgl_S
 - AvHot -> 22
 - ChStLou -> 23
 - AutRobBou -> A-740? It's signed on directional signage as that. Or ToA-740? If it's not A-740, it's not the Autoroute either, surely?
 - CoteAbr -> A-440? ToA-440? AvHorMer_N? CoteAbr is the road that QC175 takes, not one it intersects with.
 - QC172/RueRou area needs looking at

[si404]

QC185/TCH
 - ChRivVer is not there/moved due to construction works on the A-85
 - RuePri_E off where OSM has the point
 - is the QC185/A-85 point in the right place? Is this one-point-per-interchange

QC191
 - QC291_N <-> QC291_S (swap labels as directions backwards)

QC195
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC197
 - add a point on QC132 to correspond with RueMon

QC198
 - AvMiller -> AvMil

QC199
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC201
 - add point for Georges-Leduc (Av/Rue de Grand-Ile?)

QC202
 - add point on QC132 at Montee du Lac to correspond with ChEgl_W
 - perhaps some hidden points could be replaced with visible points?

QC203
 - RangIrl -> Montee Irl

QC204
 - RgSteMar -> RangSteMar

QC205
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC206
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC207
 - MteeGraLig -> ChGraLig?

QC208
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC209
 - RangMer -> Montee Mer?

[si404]

QC210
 - ChGoy is gated dirt track, replace with hidden point?

QC211
 - 11eRang_S -> 11eRang (11e Rang becomes Rang de la Chute when it gains the QC211 designation)

QC212
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC213
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC214
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC215
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC216
 - add point for GSJ at Rue des Grandes-Fourches

QC217
 - QC104 moved to A-30 point and relabeled 'A-30'? (one point per interchange)

QC218
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

QC219
 - fine other than the general "points slightly off OSM"

[oscar]

...

QC175

...

 - AutRobBou -> A-740? It's signed on directional signage as that. Or ToA-740? If it's not A-740, it's not the Autoroute either, surely?

The Donnees Quebec official online Transports Quebec map, like its predecessor Atlas des Transports, has A-740 stopping short of QC 175, but also shows Autoroute Robert-Bourassa continues as a named but unnumbered road to QC 175.

"ToA-740" might work, except similar To____ waypoint labels have been frowned on (but maybe something like just A-740 would not be). An A-740 waypoint label might puzzle users on why A-740 is not shown as an intersecting route for QC 175's waypoint. Then again, see the I-95 waypoint on PA 413, which is positioned at the end of a long ramp to I-95, and there are probably other examples out there.

QC185/TCH

...

 - is the QC185/A-85 point in the right place? Is this one-point-per-interchange

Assuming you mean A-85_S, it's that we decided in CHM days after the painful Arnprior experience with ON 17/ON 417 to end Canadian freeways at the last interchange, unless there is an intersection point where we could place the end (as we did with the other A-85 segment, where there is a Fin A-85 sign at 3e Rang). There is signage indicating that A-85 restarts before sortie (exit) 47 in St-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! But there is no intersection between there and ChSav. ChSav has signage indicating that QC 185 extends east of there, and A-85 doesn't end there, for now.

I plan to be out there next week. I won't be in a position to do much canqc field-checking, but can check whether anything has changed WRT to the QC 185/A-85 endpoints.

[si404]

Assuming you mean A-85_S, it's that we decided in CHM days after the painful Arnprior experience with ON 17/ON 417 to end Canadian freeways at the last interchange, unless there is an intersection point where we could place the end (as we did with the other A-85 segment, where there is a Fin A-85 sign at 3e Rang).

I did indeed mean the southern junction. That all seems perfectly acceptable.

[vdeane]

Question: what's going on with QC 125 just south of the northern end of A-25 (sorties 44-46)?  The current route plot appears has it overlap QC 339 to the interchange with A-25 and then following A-25, but somehow not concurrent to it (A-25 has a shaping point while QC 125 does not).

The majority of signage appears to have QC 125 follow the local road, but not all of it.  All signs at the QC 125/QC 339 junction have QC 125 on the local road, and there don't appear to be any signs on A-25 indicating an overlap with QC 125 on the segment in question.  That said, there is no signage for QC 125 at the roundabout with QC 158, and A-25 does have this sign indicating a junction with QC 125 and the QC 339 interchange.

Complicating matters further is the official sources.  Données Québec doesn't have any information of the local roads, as they're not proventially maintained, but the older Atlas des transports does.  It shows the local road as route 00125 south of  Chemin du Ruisseau St Jean, and as route 33125 north of it.  As best as I can tell, "officially" QC 125 disappears at Chemin du Ruisseau St Jean and then reappears at the QC 158 interchange on A-25.

[yakra]

It shows the local road as route 00125 south of  Chemin du Ruisseau St Jean

As best as I can tell, "officially" QC 125 disappears at Chemin du Ruisseau St Jean

Same for the GeoBase 9.0 shapefiles dated 2016-08-12.

and then reappears at the QC 158 interchange on A-25.

Unclear which one you mean: the Exit 46 trumpet, or north of there, the at-grade terminus of A-25.
Shapefiles say the trumpet. I found...

QC158 roundabout:
* All of it has RTNUMBER1 = 158.
* RTNUMBER2 = 125 from where WB 158 joins the roundabout to where SB "Ancienne Route 18" (could-be QC125) leaves, and again on the short right-turn movement from where NB "Ancienne Route 18" joins to where EB 158 leaves.
* This would be consistent with 125 S of the roundabout, except that 125 is not marked there until Chemin du Ruisseau St Jean...

East toward the A-25(46) interchange (which incidentally should be relabeled on QCC158):
* RTNUMBER1 = 158 & RTNUMBER2 = 125 until hitting the A-25 ramps.
* Then, RTNUMBER1 = 25 RTNUMBER2 = 125 & RTNUMBER3 = 158 on the ramps that would carry the concurrency in either direction.

Northward, we have a triplex.

A-25's N end; at-grade 125/158 split
* The ramps in the SW quadrant are just ramps, RTNUMBER1 = 25 only.
* Mainline roads S of here, both NB & SB, are our triplex.
* The junction itself is arranged as a rectangle, as opposed to the triangle we have in OSM.
* Both E/W legs have RTNUMBER1 = 125 only.
* E leg: RTNUMBER1 = 25 only.
* W leg is split ~50/50 into 2 line segments...
* N half of W leg, RTNUMBER1 = 158 and RTENAME1FR = Autoroute 25.
* S half of W leg, RTNUMBER1 = 25 & RTNUMBER2 = 158.

[yakra]

QC221: NY276 -> USA/CAN

[si404]

QC220: fine

QC221:
 - NY276 -> USA/CAN
 - A-15 is off OSM (also QC219)
 - RangPri -> RuePri?
 - QC138 -> QC132/138 (also QC207)

QC222: fine

QC223:
 - RangRui -> ChRui?

QC224: fine

QC225: fine

QC226:
 - RteGraLig -> RteGraLig_N

QC227:
 - 16eAv -> RangBaie?
 - RueBed -> ChBed?

QC228:
 - add point for MteeStFra (leads to A-20 exit 364)

QC229:
 - RuePri_S -> RuePri?
 - add point for ChTru (leads to A-20 exit 109)?
 - add point for ChFerChe (leads to A-20 exit 102)
 - add point for ChBelRiv (leads to A-30 exit 87)
 - add point for A-30 exit 89 (also A-30)