VA: VA 331 on the JMU campus

[Jim]

I have a VA 331 in my list file for a ride through the JMU campus in Harrisonburg some time in the past.  TM's only VA 331 is Alumnae Drive near Port Republic.  Is Wikipedia right that University Dr. in Harrisonburg is also VA 331?

[mapmikey]

Only a small part of University Ave is VA 331 and it is not posted in any kind of route marker (shield nor rectangle).

Here is the south end:  https://goo.gl/maps/x1JuZBdNYPR2
Here is the north end: https://goo.gl/maps/jEv81taExF72

Total length is 0.6 miles

It is not surprising it is not posted (nor are any of the pieces on JMU campus between I-81 and US 11) given that VA 280 and VA 253 are not posted within the City of Harrisonburg, with the exception of I-81 BGSs at VA 253.

I have had the thought that perhaps a separate set of files for Virginia could be created for the routes that are posted only with a rectangle (currently not in the state highway set in TM) or no longer posted at all but are still verifiably still in the system, such as your VA 331 question above.  Maybe call it unposted primary routes or similar as a lower tiered system.

Doing this would get these routes into TM (I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple):
113, 192, 209, 213, 313, 317, 324, 327, 331 Univ  Dr, 332, 335, 339, 342, 345, 350, 355, 366, 367, 375, 377, 382, 390, 393, 394, 399, 420

Parts of 302 and 303 would also be added under this concept...

[michih]

Maybe call it unposted primary routes or similar as a lower tiered system.

Would this be the first system with unsigned routes? Do we really want that?

[mapmikey]

Maybe call it unposted primary routes or similar as a lower tiered system.

Would this be the first system with unsigned routes? Do we really want that?

It could be limited to those which ARE posted but only with secondary route rectangles (many, many US/State routes in Virginia have rectangle postings, just not exclusively so) which would be about 6 of the ones I listed.

Personally I see no distinction between unsigned interstates, unnumbered select freeways, and unsigned state routes.  I'm a little fuzzy on why unsigned routes cannot be included...if someone drives one they would want to be able to track it, yes?  Having these as a separate category would allow people who wish to distinguish between posted and not posted primary routes to be able to do so.  I actually have no problem just adding these missing state highways to the normal set...they are Virginia State highways.

I also have no problem with making it optional if the person in charge of a state declines to include them.  For example, a portion of the 700-900 routes in Mississippi is unsigned and can be left out if Froggie wanted to leave them out.

[michih]

Personally I see no distinction between unsigned interstates, unnumbered select freeways, and unsigned state routes.  I'm a little fuzzy on why unsigned routes cannot be included...if someone drives one they would want to be able to track it, yes?  Having these as a separate category would allow people who wish to distinguish between posted and not posted primary routes to be able to do so.  I actually have no problem just adding these missing state highways to the normal set...they are Virginia State highways.

I also have no problem with making it optional if the person in charge of a state declines to include them.  For example, a portion of the 700-900 routes in Mississippi is unsigned and can be left out if Froggie wanted to leave them out.

I absolutely agree and would support any kind of rule modification!

I cannot remember any complaint by a "normal" user (not contributor) since TM times that an unsigned route is drafted and MUST be removed. I only remember questions why a route shown on all kind of maps is not in the HB, e.g. this.

[oscar]

As someone who would like to make rare exceptions to the unsigned routes rule in Alaska (one for a route unsigned because of persistent sign vandalism), I'm not comfortable with doing away with it altogether. I've found that rule helpful for ignoring tiny little route stubs like CA 710 just south of I-210 (it's in the HB, but not for long), and CA 39 just south of CA 2 (0.03 mile long stub left over after landslides took out a big chunk of the route to the south), not to mention a bunch of short connectors to Hawaii military bases that HDOT numbers only because it feels compelled to slap a number on everything it maintains. Maryland also has a lot of routes like that, such as bypassed 800-series routes that remain in the state inventory much as that state's DOT would like them to go away.

A little leeway for the responsible team member seems a good idea, but let's not overdo it. It might be more appropriate in jurisdictions with lots of unnumbered routes, than one like Hawaii and Maryland that number everything.

[Jim]

In this particular case, I don't see it being important enough to change/bend rules to include it.