DEU-BY: new waypoint request for old A95 terminus

[dave1693]

This is probably a "vanity" waypoint request, so I'll understand if it doesn't get done.

I'm in the process of putting together .list files for each of my two trips to Europe way back in the day. Those trips were in 1978 and 1984. Some of the major highways now in place hadn't been built yet... here's one of those cases.

So in 1978, our tour went from Innsbruck to Muenchen by way of Garmisch-Partenkirchen (three Olympic venues), and somewhere north of G-P, the bus went from the "old" road -- what I now know is route B2 -- onto the nearly-new autobahn (A95) and almost immediately crossed a sizable river. There is no such spot on the modern A95 where that could happen. HOWEVER, what I could glean of the A95's history says that in the 1970s, the autobahn's southern terminus was north of where it is now -- at a temporary interchange just south of the Loisach river bridge near Ohlstadt (the longest bridge in Bavaria, at least at the time). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesautobahn_95 gives a reasonable summary in slightly fractured English.)

So I'm asking about the feasibility of putting a waypoint on A95 for *10A, and on B2Wei for *A95(10A), at the spot where the two cross just west of the river Loisach southwest of Ohlstadt. I realize that I may be the only person who'll ever use these waypoints should they be added. I also realize that this is VERY close to another waypoint on B2Wei (St2562).

Thanks for your consideration.

[michih]

I'll add it.

wikipedia is not the best source. If you need opening dates of any other Autobahn, just let me know

[dave1693]

Well, since you asked/offered... here are the possible autobahn routes our tour bus may have used in 1978:

A8 from Karlsruhe to Muenchen
A81 from A6 (Heilbronn) to A8 (Stuttgart)
A5 from Heidelberg to Karlsruhe
A6 from Heidelberg to A81 (Heilbronn)
A61 from A1 (near Koeln) to A650 (near Mannheim)
Autobahnen leading in and out of Koeln on the south and west
A4 from the Netherlands border to Koeln
A44 from the Belgian border to A4

And if you have any opening-date info on A-routes in France, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, and southern Netherlands, I'll be happy to bug you about those too... :-)

[michih]

A8 from Karlsruhe to Muenchen

In service since 1939

A81 from A6 (Heilbronn) to A8 (Stuttgart)

In service since 1940

A5 from Heidelberg to Karlsruhe

Opened 1936-38

A6 from Heidelberg to A81 (Heilbronn)

Last section was opened in 1970

A61 from A1 (near Koeln) to A650 (near Mannheim)

Fully open since 1975

Autobahnen leading in and out of Koeln on the south and west

A1 west of Cologne <= 1972
A553 1976/77
A555 1959 (rededicated to Autobahn)


A4 from the Netherlands border to Koeln

<=1960, section north of Aachen 1970
But there was a realignment b/n Düren and Kerpen completed in 2014: http://www.strassen.nrw.de/de/projekte/a4/ausbau-und-verlegung-zwischen-dueren-und-kerpen.html
Old route was decommissioned due to surface mining.

A44 from the Belgian border to A4

<=1972

All routes were opened as they are today except of A4

And if you have any opening-date info on A-routes in France

https://routes.fandom.com/wiki/Autoroute_fran%C3%A7aise#En_France

Switzerland

I found this list:
https://www.autobahnen.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?p=408&sid=30f69bb8798b265730710d10a2c59527#p408
and I recommend German (not English) wikipedia, e.g. A1 "Chronologie der Streckeneröffnungen": https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn_1_(Schweiz)
Just navigate on English wikipedia and switch to German wikipedia (or ask me


Austria

https://www.asfinag.at/media/1510/de_buch-30-jahre-asfinag.pdf (ASFINAG = Austrian motorway authority)
A1 on page 24, A2 on page 38,...

Belgium

https://www.wegenwiki.nl/Belgi%C3%AB#Snelwegen (select route and use Google Translate)
Openstellingsgeschiedenis = Opening history


and southern Netherlands

Maybe here: https://www.wegenwiki.nl/Autosnelweg#Nederlandse_autosnelwegen but there might be a better list on wegenwiki

I'll be happy to bug you about those too... :-)

Sure, but I need more details

[michih]

Points added to A95, B2 and E533: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/2642

[dave1693]

Points added to A95, B2 and E533: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/2642

Thanks.

Going to start a new topic for certain routes in western Austria, based in part on what I've read in the book. (More specific questions about other countries will have to wait.)

[dave1693]

The "new" waypoints on A95/E533 and B2Wei do not match up. Was that intentional?

[michih]

^^ What do you mean with "match up"? They have different coordinates because the A95 end was after the bridge not on the bridge! Do I get anything wrong?

[dave1693]

Since the temporary end of A95 was right at B2, I would have expected the point on A95 to be at the same coordinates as the point on B2 ("one point per interchange" and all that).

This would mark the now-closed interchange as having B2Wei as an intersecting road on A95/E533, and vioce versa. That may be undesirable by the criteria for closed interchanges -- I don't know. Personally I'd prefer to have those intersecting highways marked (even though you can't get from one to the other any more right there) but I'm not that up to speed on overall design criteria.

[michih]

A95 ended after the bridge and there was no interchange but A95 just merged into B2 anyhow. I guess that there was a temporary road right here: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6239788,11.1996765,209m/data=!3m1!1e3

I've positioned the *wp according to this assumption.

[michih]

The next section opened in 1982 has a length of 4.6km. I had measured the lenght and it's anywhere close to my wp: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/47.5883749,11.1756559/47.6247697,11.1986327/@47.6250151,11.1997909,420m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0

I've now looked up historical data and found this: https://geoportal.bayern.de/bayernatlas/?lang=de&topic=zeitr&bgLayer=atkis&layers=luftbild,zeitreihe_tk&E=665271.72&N=5276930.65&zoom=13&time=1980&layers_timestamp=,19801231 (1980) It's even "more detailed" when you zoom-out

[dave1693]

I've now looked up historical data and found this: https://geoportal.bayern.de/bayernatlas/?lang=de&topic=zeitr&bgLayer=atkis&layers=luftbild,zeitreihe_tk&E=665271.72&N=5276930.65&zoom=13&time=1980&layers_timestamp=,19801231 (1980) It's even "more detailed" when you zoom-out

The historical map does indeed make it clear. I'd thought the "temporary" interchange back then would look like the current "temporary" interchange at the south end of A95, but the old map makes clear that wasn't the case. So as far as I'm concerned, this issue is completely closed. I'll put it in my next update. Thanks for all your assistance!