Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system

[nezinscot]

Request: for all of N317, could we add some waypoints for where the cycling route joins and leaves the driving route? Well we are primarily expecting users to drive to cinch, I don't see why we can't add a few more points for this popular cycling destination.

Also the cycle route is also the moped (less than 125cc) route, so it is fair to actually drive on it.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Shimanami cycling route.  https://shimanami-cycle.or.jp/  Are you asking for waypoints to be added where the bike path joins and leaves the various bridges on E76/N317Set?

[nezinscot]

I usually check to see if a road has user entries, and if I need to change a waypoint name, I move the old name to an Alt Label.  I must have failed to do this for some my recent Kyushu changes.  I'll be more vigilant about this.

Also, during my recent reviews of Kyushu and Shikoku, I eliminated some waypoints to secondary prefectural roads that were only included because they prevented VISIBLE_DISTANCE warnings.

In urban areas, primary prefectural roads can be close together.  I will skip some of them, choosing the ones that seem more important.  Criteria include the presence of a stoplight, multiple lanes, leads somewhere locally important, length of the road, etc.  The recent changes dropped some of these primary prefectural roads.


When choosing what to waypoint, my general rules are:
1) national expressways and urban expressway systems
2) national highways
3) primary prefectural roads - in most prefectures these are numbered < 100   (OSM green roads)
4) secondary prefectural roads that directly lead to expressway exits    (OSM yellow roads)
5) secondary prefectural toads or local roads that lead directly to major tourist sites - these are rare

Even with restricting the inclusion of secondary roads, waypoint density is frequently less than 2 miles between points.  In urban areas it is commonly less than a mile.

If a user wants a secondary or local road included in the waypoints, I'll likely add it.  I just need to be told the road name or location.

[michih]

When choosing what to waypoint, my general rules are:

Check this: https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/includepts.php#intersections

I also recommend adding wps for intersecting roads heading to grade-separated roads.

[michih]

Goodness, I didn't check the number of routes before I wrote that I'll review the system. And the first one is a very long one...

Please ask if you don't get why I suggest changes. Suggestions with ? are optional.

N1:
N4 -> N4/N6 since both are in Highway Browser
N15/P10 -> N15_Tok ?
N15 -> N15_Yok
P301/P319 -> P301 would be enough since P routes are not (yet?) in HB, I won't mention that for similar situations. It's up to you to change it.
P2_N -> P2_Shi ?
P2_S -> P2_Yok ?
N16Yok -> N16_E since the concurrent main route splits off
N16/P81 -> N16_W
N1Shi_E -> C4 since it's a route of higher tier
N1Shi_W -> E84
N129 -> N129/N412
E84/N1SSH_Iry -> E84_Kaz (preferred) or E84/N1SSH
N138 -> N138_W since it's concurrent from N255
N1SSH_W -> N1SSH_Hak ? (well, you don't have to change it, it's just a recommendation to better distinguish that the route is not concurrent, I won#t mention it for similar situations)
N136/P21 -> N136
N246/N414 misses the graph connection to N414 because N414's end point is off
N139/P76 -> N139
N1Fuj/P81 -> N1Fuj
N152/P65 -> N152
E1A/N23 -> E1A
N302_E -> C2(1)
N19/N247 -> N19/N22
N302_W -> C2(25)
N302_W needs to be synced to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.126350&lon=136.818151
N365 -> N365/N477
N164 -> N164/N477
N164_End -> Suw since N164 does not intersect here, it's just the end of N164
E25 -> ToE25
Add a wp to E25 for that connector
E23/E25 -> E25 since there is no graph connection to E23
N478/N1Kei -> N1Kei/N478
N168/P20 -> N168
HE12/P2 -> E26 since it's highest tier
Add wp b/n N1Shi_W and N129 for a road heading to E84 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.332869&lon=139.377338
Add wp b/n P22_E and N136/P21 for a road heading to E70 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.114687&lon=138.927795
Add wp for GSJ west of N139FIS at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.133391&lon=138.648394 (closer to the rules) OR http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.132167&lon=138.644575 (would also be fine)
Replace +X399258 by two visible wps for the nearby GSJ (or maybe just one wp?)
Add one or two wps b/n P54/P67 and P74
Add wp west of P84_Shi for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.954254&lon=138.367800
Replace +X471047 by a visible wp
Add wp west of N1Sei_W for GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.937017&lon=138.308194
Add wp for GSJ b/n N1Fuj/P81 and P32 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.889557&lon=138.256288
Add wps for GSJs west of P64 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.854207&lon=138.202847 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.848101&lon=138.182613 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.845772&lon=138.166959
Remove +X872523
Move P64 wp to the underpass at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.843963&lon=138.150351
Add wp east of N1Nis_E for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.820929&lon=138.106481
Add wps east of P39 for GSJs at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.790149&lon=138.071258 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.786404&lon=138.050342 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.784475&lon=138.028139
Remove +X757522 and +X502773
Add wps east of P61_Fuk for a GSJs at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.770481&lon=137.977987 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.757604&lon=137.936128 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.757260&lon=137.922235
Add wp west of P61_Fuk for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.747003&lon=137.894243
Replace +X516279 by a visible wp for the nearby GSJ
Add wp b/n P44_Iwa and N152/P65 for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.728387&lon=137.814297
Add wp north of N421 for a road heading to a GSJ of N258 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.076853&lon=136.684942
Remove +X864172 since it's no longer needed
Add wp for GSJ b/n N306 and E25 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.864217&lon=136.439799
Also add for concurrent N25
Replace +X845776 by a visible wp for the nearby GSJ
Add wp east of N307_N for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.966353&lon=136.196217
Add wp b/n P13_E and P13_W for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.989846&lon=136.116394
Add wp east of P32_Kyo for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.994118&lon=135.775896
Also add for concurrent N8
Add wps b/n P17_Hir and P22_Yaw for intersecting roads heading to E1A/E93 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.857997&lon=135.712261 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.868244&lon=135.727496
Add wp b/n N170_N and N168/P20 for a GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.806717&lon=135.652826
Add wp b/n P30_Osa and P8_Osa at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.699288&lon=135.536394 (looks important)
Also add for concurrent N163


N258:
Add wp b/n E23 and N421_W for GSJ at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.073876&lon=136.665126

[nezinscot]

There are >1200 roads.  That's why I usually review by island or prefecture.  N1 is probably the most complicated of them all.  It connects every seaside city from Tokyo to Osaka, plus there are many bypass routes also considered part of N1.

I'm away for the next 10 days.  I'll make these changes when I return at the end of the month.

[michih]

Ok. Is the "missing wp for GSJs" a general issue of your system? Should I wait till you've added them, or should I go ahead and review the routes as I did for N1?

[Nagamasa]

I think my personal preference is to just include all numbered prefectural roads as waypoints, it's significantly harder to add them in at a later time, and most other regions do have 2nd level secondary roads mapped too FWIW.

I also do wonder if JPN should be split by prefecture or region, it is a very dense region across our projects.

[michih]

N1DNK:
The "city field" has "Daini Keihan Road" and the abbreviation "DNK". I'd call it DKR but not DNK. On the other hand, the rule says "City: Used to distinguish between otherwise identically named routes of the same highway in the same region. Pittsburgh for Truck US 19 (Pittsburgh). Prefer using city names (if applicable) or other common geographical names to distinguish, e.g. island names."
Thus, I recommend calling it "Katano", the city in the middle of the route. The file name should be jpn.n001kat.

Add wp for GSJ b/n E89(1) and N1Kei.
Sync coords of E89(4) with E89's exit 4 coords. The latter look good.
Add wps for the two GSJ b/n P22_S and E89(5).

E89(5) is north of E89's exit 4-1. Are there ramps between E89 and N1? While the labels looks wrong, should we remove N1's E89(5) wp?
E89(5a) is at E89's exit 4-1. What's the right exit number? OSM + 2024 GSV suggest 5. No number southbound. The next exit to the south is also 5. Thus, I suggest:
- Remove E89(5) north of E1AYaw
- Rename E89(5a) -> E89(5) since it's the first exit 5, and the more important one.
- Add wp where E89 has it's exit 5, not sure if it should be E89(5) but it's also a GSJ with the surface roads
- Rename E89's exit numbers: 4-1 -> 5, 5 -> 5a

Replace +X140534 by a visible wp for the GSJ
Add wp for GSJ b/n +X140534 and E89(6)
Sync E89(7)'s coords with E89's exit 7 coords.
Sync E89(10)'s coords with E89's exit 10 coords.
Add N21 route, or rename the wp
Move N163 between the main lines of both routes
Sync E89(12)'s coords with E89's exit 12 coords.


N1Fuj:
Add wps for both GSJs
N1/P81 -> N1, no need to add the number of a lower category road.


N1Hok:
Extend route from 'End' to N477Yok.
End -> Sak or Yam or ToP622


N136Izu:
OSM indicates N136(!) extending at north end onto the surface road of N1Izu up to P141. Please check.


N1Kum:
N1DNK -> N1Kat ? see above


N1Ots:
N1 -> N1/N8 because it's a number for a route of the same system
Add wps for four GSJs b/n P43 and E1/E89
E1/E89 -> E1/E88


N1Rit:
Add wp for GSJ b/n P22 and N1/P4
N1/P4 -> N1
Add wp for GSJ b/n N1/P4 and E1
Move E1 to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.017485&lon=136.022801


N1Sei:
ToN52 -> N52 and extend N52 ?
Add wp for the partial exit (GSJ) b/n ToN52 and ShiMarRd
Add wp for GSJ b/n P67_E and P67_W
Add wp for GSJ b/n P27 and N362 (P205)
Add wp for GSJ b/n P27 and N362, west of the river
Add wp for GSJ b/n N362 and N1_W


N1SSH:
Rename to Odawara, file name jpn.n001oda but with alt route name N1SSH because the route has a traveler (Cw9)
N1_Yam -> N1/N138


N1Yok:
N1_Tok -> E83_N

[nezinscot]

Thanks for the responses.  I'm back from my trip and finally finished my taxes, so I'm working on these roads again.

I would hold off on reviewing other roads while I work through your review of N1.

I do have a question about removing roads.  The Tokyo Expressway (TE) was decommissioned on April 5th and will be torn down. Also, the nearby Yaesu Expressway (SEY) was closed on the same day and will be rebuilt over a multi-year span.  I plan to remove both roads.  Latest OSM doesn't show them.

One user has driven TE.  Would I need to notify users that TE is deleted?

[nezinscot]

I think my personal preference is to just include all numbered prefectural roads as waypoints, it's significantly harder to add them in at a later time, and most other regions do have 2nd level secondary roads mapped too FWIW.

I also do wonder if JPN should be split by prefecture or region, it is a very dense region across our projects.

Currently, primary prefectural roads are mostly included.  Most exceptions are where the prefectural road network is dense, such as in urban areas.  Secondary prefectural roads are mostly not included.  Hokkaido is an exception because of the scarcity of primary roads there.

I'm wary of trying to include prefectural road mapping for a number of reasons. 
1) There are 129000 km of prefectural roads.
2) It is difficult to trace the paths of prefectural roads when they are concurrent with other numbered roads. 
Concurrencies are usually not shown on OSM.
3) I have found lists and routes of roads on a few prefectural websites.  The quality of prefectural sites is widely variable.  I doubt my ability to find the data for every prefecture.  (Or to be able to read it if I find it.)
4) Prefectural roads change frequently.  Keeping up with changes will be difficult.


As for splitting Japan's national highway system into 47 prefectural pieces: 
a) Are many smaller systems preferred over one huge system?
b) Would jpne and jpntk also be split?
c) If it is likely that this split will eventually need to be made, should we do it prior to getting promoted to active?

[michih]

I would hold off on reviewing other roads while I work through your review of N1.

Yep, that's why I didn't start with N2. I'd like to know if you understand my feedback for N1. If it's helpful as I documented it.

I do have a question about removing roads.  The Tokyo Expressway (TE) was decommissioned on April 5th and will be torn down. Also, the nearby Yaesu Expressway (SEY) was closed on the same day and will be rebuilt over a multi-year span.  I plan to remove both roads.  Latest OSM doesn't show them.

One user has driven TE.  Would I need to notify users that TE is deleted?

You should remove TE. You need an update entry because it belongs to an active system: https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/maintenance.php#delroute
Keep SEY.

[michih]

I think my personal preference is to just include all numbered prefectural roads as waypoints, it's significantly harder to add them in at a later time, and most other regions do have 2nd level secondary roads mapped too FWIW.

I also do wonder if JPN should be split by prefecture or region, it is a very dense region across our projects.

Currently, primary prefectural roads are mostly included.  Most exceptions are where the prefectural road network is dense, such as in urban areas. Secondary prefectural roads are mostly not included.  Hokkaido is an exception because of the scarcity of primary roads there.

Fine.

I'm wary of trying to include prefectural road mapping for a number of reasons. 
1) There are 129000 km of prefectural roads.
2) It is difficult to trace the paths of prefectural roads when they are concurrent with other numbered roads. 
Concurrencies are usually not shown on OSM.
3) I have found lists and routes of roads on a few prefectural websites.  The quality of prefectural sites is widely variable.  I doubt my ability to find the data for every prefecture.  (Or to be able to read it if I find it.)
4) Prefectural roads change frequently.  Keeping up with changes will be difficult.

I think it's similar to France. I drafted the D route systems in France I recommend to not add the Japanese prefectural road systems. First, because what you wrote 1-4. Second, because we only have 18 travelers so far.

As for splitting Japan's national highway system into 47 prefectural pieces: 
a) Are many smaller systems preferred over one huge system?

I don't think that we have a preference about the system size. 47 instead of 1 system for prefectural roads would only make sense if each prefecture has it's own numbering e.g. if there would be more than one P1 etc i.e. each (or many) prefecture would have a P1.

b) Would jpne and jpntk also be split?

The wpt files had to be split at the prefecture borders. The systems would remain as-is.

c) If it is likely that this split will eventually need to be made, should we do it prior to getting promoted to active?

There was a proposal for hidden systems, i.e. would not have to update their list files if we'd split a region. The code is quite advanced but @yakra is currently kinda out of order

[michih]

Thanks for the responses.  I'm back from my trip and finally finished my taxes, so I'm working on these roads again.

I would hold off on reviewing other roads while I work through your review of N1.

@nezinscot I've seen two pull requests since your last post:
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/8300
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/8309

I didn't check them in detail but guess that you are not yet done with processing my comments on N1?

Please check this too: https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=6794.msg37727#msg37727

[neroute2]

Some issues I've found:
New N145 branch at Gobara?
New N353 branch at Shibukawa
E29 and N373 don't intersect properly
E35Kar and N202Ima don't intersect properly
KE2 and N199 don't intersect properly
New piece of E55/N493 east of E55Tan?

N1 interchange between N139 and N139FIS, KanBarE and KanBarW, P208 and P81/P381, N1Nis_E and N1Nis_W, P44_Iwa and P262 (two), P262 and N152, N152 and N150
N1: N23Mei -> N23, N23/N259 -> N151/N259, N1Kei/N478 -> N1Kum/N478
N1: what is the E23 point supposed to be?
N1 missing point for E1(33-1)
N1DKR interchange between P188 and E89(1), E89(5) and NagHig, N170 and E89(11)
N1DKR: N1Kei -> N1Kum
N1Hok interchange between P66_E and P66_W

N2 and N28 should not overlap HE3
N2 interchange between HE3(3-23) and N28_W, N29 and N179_W, N179_W and P29_B (three), P29_B and P44/P715 (five?), E2(11) and N250/N374, P37 and P397 (three?), P397 and P45 (three), P40 and N30 (two?), N30 and P21_B, P21_C and P73, P22_B and N429_N (three), N429_N and P54, P54 and ToN429 (two), P54_E and N2Ono_E (three), N2Ono_W and P55, P25_Hir and P50/P362 (three), N375 and P67_B (four), N2EH_W and P86 (three)
N2Ono interchange between N2_E and P48, E76(1) and N184, N184 and N2_Fuk (two), P71 and P41_Hir (two), P41_Hir and N2WH_W, N188_W and E2(37) (two?), P58 and P24 (two?), N9_E and N190_E, N190_E and E2/P6, E2(45) and N190_W (two)
N2: P90_W relocated
N2WH interchange between N2 and P71, P71 and P41 (four), E2 and N2_W
N2 has a branch from P335 to E2
Is N2Kan signed?

N3Kur: End -> KE5 (and it seems that logically it should use the ramps back to N3)
N3 interchange between N199 and P73, P27 and P87 (four?), P87 and P69 (three), P75 and P92, P92 and P97, P97 and P30, KE2(209) and P35_S (two), P31 and N200_S (two), N200_S and P17, P17 and N34
N3Hak interchange between N3_N and N201
N3Kum interchange between N3 and N387, N387 and P49, P49 and N57
N3Kag interchange between E3_Kag and P24

N4 interchange between MeiDor and SEC2/P308, SEC2/P308 and P318, P49 and P34, P34_Nas and P17 (two), P17_Kor and P47 (two), P47 and P6, P6 and N49, N49 and N288 (four), P30_Ota and N459_W, N459_E and P62_Nih, P62_Nih and P39/P129 (two), P51 and N115_W (four?), P23/P137 and N45, N45 and P8, P56_N and N347/P1 (two), P1_N and E4(32), P48_Kur and N284/N457, N4Miz and E4(36), N281_End and N282/P16 (two), E4(43) and P157, P6_Nin and P24_Nin, N454_W and N45/N102
N4Uts interchanges between C4 and N354 (two), N354 and P56, P56 and N125, N125 and P54, P54 and N50, N50 and P44 (four), P44 and N352/P47 (four), P35 and E50, P46 and N123
N4 should have a point between P126/P127 and P54_Sen for the connection to E48

N6 interchange between N298 and N464, N16 and P7_A, P8 and P11, P19 and N6UsS (three), N354/N125Ami and P24 (two), P24 and N125 (two), N125 and P64, P43_S and P43_N, P38_A and P31_N, N289 and P10_N, Ona and P66 (three?), N49 and P26, P26 and N399 (three), P36_B and N288, P266 and N115/P74, N115/P74 and P38_B (two)

N7 interchange between P46 and P556, P53 and N113?, P38_N and N47/P40, N345_D and N345_E, E7(12NTE) and P32 (two), N341_E and P44_Iwa, P65_S and P65, E7(15) and P3_Fut, P3_Hir and P41, N7Aom and N280Uch, N280Uch and N280
N7Aom interchange between N7 and E4 (two), E4 and P44_N

N8 interchange between P20 and E8(38), E8(38) and P8, P8 and N17/N351, P53 and P52, P68 and N41 (two), P1 and P41_Toy, P41_Toy and N472 (two), P11_Imi and P24 (two), P32 and N471, P16_Oya and P59 (five), N159_N and N159_S (eight), N8Ima and E8(17), E8(17) and P60 (two), P58 and N305_N (six), P54 and N360, N416/P22 and P11_Kom (three), P11_Kom and N305, N305/N364 and P61_Kag, N416 and N158 (two?), N158 and P32_Fuk
N8: N8BypOts -> N1Ots

more to come