autl5: Salzburg Landesstraßen

[michih]

The system will be in preview with the next site update: https://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?sys=autl5 The system has 19 routes for 125 miles.

I only found L101 being signd last year but a deeper look into it uncovered much more signs on recent GSV: https://www.autobahn-online.de/phorum/read.php?3,199495,200586#msg-200586
Log: https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.wxe?Abfrage=Landesnormen&Dokumentnummer=LSB40001238
Map: https://www.salzburg.gv.at/verkehr_/Seiten/strassennetz_salzburg.aspx

The system is ready for peer-reviewing. Please report any issue here!

[Duke87]

Is there a reason numbers 200+ are not included? I found a sign for one.

[michih]

Is there a reason numbers 200+ are not included? I found a sign for one.

100s are "1. Ordnung", 200s are "2. Ordnung". Ordnung = order, rank, system,...

https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.wxe?Abfrage=Landesnormen&Dokumentnummer=LSB40001238
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Landesstra%C3%9Fen_im_Land_Salzburg

[Duke87]

OK so is the plan to make a separate system for the higher numbers, or...? Given this system is already tier 5 and they appear to be signed the same, I'd think all they should logically go together.

[michih]

Upper Austria has the same logic but we also have "1. Ordnung" in HB only.

[Duke87]

That doesn't answer my question. My question is, is the plan for the 2. Ordnung routes to:

A) add them to this system later
B) create another system for them later
C) omit them from the HB permanently

?

[michih]

C) omit them from the HB permanently

This. I don't think that we should go to the next tier level as long as so many tier 5 systems are still in preview.
In total, we have 178 preview system as-of today, i.e. about 1/3 of all systems.

[Duke87]

What I'm struggling with here is the distinction between 1. Ordnung an 2. Ordnung only seems to exist on paper. They're signed the same, and numbers don't repeat between the two.

So we really should just have both in one system called "autl5: Salzburg Landesstraßen" (and yes, do the same for Upper Austria).


Worth noting for context: I stumbled in here because I went to start banging out the peer review for this, but then stopped immediately when I noticed there were a bunch of L-routes not included. I don't want to move towards activating what looks to my eyes to be an incomplete system, but if the 2. Ordnung routes are added to it I should be able to get the peer review done quickly so the combined autl5 system can be activated.

[michih]

Sounds reasonable. Have you checked that the 4-digit roads in Upper Austria are signed too?

More background why I've implemented it as-is:
I made the same for Saarland. It is the only German state having state roads with 1. Ordnung + 2. Ordnung. The wikipedia article indicates that the 2. Ordnung roads are what other German states call "Kreisstraße" = district roads. District roads have a different prefix, i.e. mainly K instead of L. Thus, I omitted 2. Ordnung roads for Saarland.

Czechia also have two classes (and two systems in HB) with the same signs (white on blue). However, They have different prefixes on paper, i.e. I and II.

I thought that Si also made different in other countries but I fail to find examples now. Bulgaria has "1. + 2. Ordnung" in one system.

[michih]

I thought that Si also made different in other countries but I fail to find examples now. Bulgaria has "1. + 2. Ordnung" in one system.

Serbia. We have 2-digit IB roads in HB, but not 3-digit IIA. Both are signed the same way: https://maps.app.goo.gl/TnDvQYqYpAQrJpwN8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_in_Serbia#State_roads,_class_IB
State roads, class IA are in HB as srba
State roads, class IB are in HB as srbb
State roads, class IIA are not in HB albeit signed as IB
State roads, class IIB are not in HB (not sure if signed, found nothing now)

[michih]

So okay let's worry about Salzburg for now. We know they have signs!

Any objection to adding Salzburg's L200s?

[si404]

No objections from me.

Re: Serbia - because the secondary sources (and paper primary ones too) treat the three digit roads as different to the 2 digit ones, I treated them different. When making the system detailed info was pretty scarce and I don't think I'd seen that they were signed the same. They do have a different, hidden, prefix though so I'll probably add them as a separate system when I do my (long time coming) Serbia clean up that I nearly started when doing a flurry of tier
5 systems.

Returning to Austria, the parallel is Slovenia, where the tier 5 system consists of about 4 different levels (with the first number being the distinguisher of that). I don't believe they are signed differently (unlike say, Spanish tier 5 roads where I've taken the orange cartouche roads, but not yellow, green, etc cartouche roads that are at a lower level), so were treated as one.

[michih]

^^ Thanks

[michih]

L200s added: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7110

I'm gone with the 2022 map but partially checked the 2000 road list e.g. for exact end points.

L217 is indicated with a length of 4.394km b/n B151 and Seeache; Seeache is where the state border is. Total length b/n B151 and B154 is 4.4km. However. Upper Austria's L543 is also indicated b/n B151 and B154 with a length of 4.382km. Gone with state border to divide the routes, i.e. I've truncated Upper Austria's L543.
I've not drafted L261 because the routing is not clear to me. It is the only route which is not called state road but hiking trail: "Söllheimer Wanderweg"

[Duke87]

Alright well I said I'd bang this out, here we go.

AUT L101-5: Bra/Sal -> Obe/Sal (using Oberösterriech as the basis since that's the level of jurisdiction border relevant here)
AUT L103-5: Sal/Voc-> Sal/Obe
AUT L109-5: ZandWeg -> ZanWeg
AUT L112-5: south end should be at SchWeg point per map you linked to, road also narrows and loses its centerline at this point per GMSV.
AUT L116-5: Gmu/Sal -> Obe/Sal; L158 -> B158
AUT L118-5: suggest removing the AuStr and RaiStr points, these are functionally only ends of a one-way pair
AUT L203-5: Bra/Sal -> Obe/Sal
AUT L205-5: Bra/Sal -> Obe/Sal
AUT L208-5: needs a couple other segments added as the road crosses the Salzburg/Upper Austria border six times. Only the longest segment is mapped currently. Also, Voc/Sal -> Obe/Sal; Sal/Voc -> Sal/Obe
AUT L209-5: could use a few extra shaping points west of Gaißau to capture that big swooping switchback
AUT L210-5: B159_Vig -> B159_N; B159_Str -> B159_S; RomStrNord -> RomStr
AUT L212-5: is on the wrong side of A10 most of the way between Zed and Fell. May need to add a shaping point or two to A10 to fix this.
AUT L213-5: could use a couple shaping points east of Weng
AUT L218-5: Sal/Voc -> Sal/Obe
AUT L218-5: could use a shaping point near the south end to pull the trace away from B311's.
AUT L219-5: Joh/Lie -> Sal/Ste
AUT L221-5: Bra/Sal -> Obe/Sal
AUT L223-5: Joh/Lie -> Sal/Ste
AUT L228-5: Bra/Sal -> Obe/Sal
AUT L242-5: Sal/Bra -> Sal/Obe
AUT L246-5: could use a couple shaping points to capture the large switchback
AUT L253-5: B156_Ach -> B156_N; B156_Leh -> B156_S
AUT L255-5: B156_HolW -> B156_W; B156_HolE -> B156_E
AUT L262-5: Tam/Mur -> Sal/Ste
AUT L267-5: Tam/Spi -> Sal/Kar
AUT L268-5: Bra/Sal -> Obe/Sal
AUT L270-5: B311_Esc -> B311_W; B311_Bir -> B311_E
AUT L272-5: B178_UnkS -> B178_S; B178_UnkN -> B178_N

The rest are fine.