usaca: California State Highways

[rickmastfan67]

I just realized... alt labels in a preview system? Are there more?

I've done it from time to time when I knew an route would be changing numbers sometime in the near future, but not exactly when it would happen.  So, decided to play it safe.

[yakra]

Wait, why does that matter if the route hasn't changed yet?

[rickmastfan67]

Wait, why does that matter if the route hasn't changed yet?

Mainly so I could remember to double check and swap labels in the future.

[yakra]

CA89MtS:
+x220 could be replaced with a point for Eagle Mountain Ln, for access to the Dusty Campground.
Shaping points in that area are pretty thick as well, and could be thinned out a bit.
LasPeakHwy might be a more clear label for the S endpoint? Same for the same point on CA44?

US101: There's a point labeled CA1/271, but CA271Leg ends at CA1, not overlapping to US101.
CA254: Recommend dropping the "To" from ToUS101(663) and ToUS101(667A)
US101BusFor: Add a Newburg Rd point, for its connection to US101 exit 688?
CA255: Has US101_S and US101(713). There's no interchange & thus no exit number at the S jct, but maybe relabel the N one to be consistent?

[Bickendan]

CA89MtS:
+x220 could be replaced with a point for Eagle Mountain Ln, for access to the Dusty Campground.
Shaping points in that area are pretty thick as well, and could be thinned out a bit.
LasPeakHwy might be a more clear label for the S endpoint? Same for the same point on CA44?

US101: There's a point labeled CA1/271, but CA271Leg ends at CA1, not overlapping to US101.
CA254: Recommend dropping the "To" from ToUS101(663) and ToUS101(667A)
US101BusFor: Add a Newburg Rd point, for its connection to US101 exit 688?
CA255: Has US101_S and US101(713). There's no interchange & thus no exit number at the S jct, but maybe relabel the N one to be consistent?

I'd say there's a 99.9999% chance that you're right that since there isn't an interchange there will be no exit number, but US 20's 'exit' 7 at the eastern intersection with Bus US 20 (Toledo)  makes a double check warranted. (I still wonder why ODOT chose to slap an exit number there instead of on its non-numbered interchanges still floating around -- OR 126 in Springfield comes to mind).

[neroute2]

Starting on a review:
1: GolLanSt should be moved north one block, since Del Prado is signed as SR 1 Alternate (northbound, southbound). Maybe also add points at both ends of this alternate route?
1: does IrvCoveDr count as a GSJ? Or no, because it's private?
1: move AlaSt to the connector road intersection?
1: GSJ at 96thSt, just north of LAX
1: GSJ at CulBlvd, south of CA90
1: move OceAve to the connector road overpass?
1: recenter ChaBlvd
1: CHN1 -> CRN1, CHN9 -> CRN9
1: move WesBeaRd west to the GSJ at ZumaBea? Or is the construction removing that?
1: MuguRock appears to have its own parking area just to the east. The waypoint as we have it is MuguBea.
1: SBAccRd -> EmmaWoodSB?
1: SolBeaDr is practically a gated driveway. A point is unnecessary here.
1: HobCouPark -> HobPark per signs
1: DelSt is a gated dirt track with no signs. Move south to RanSanJul.
1: CA246_S -> CA246_E, CA246_N -> CA246_W
1: SanAntRd -> SanAntRd_W, add SanAntRd_E (signed as a cutoff to SR 135 towards Los Alamos)
1: WilRd_S -> WilRd or WilRd_E, WilRd_N -> SanMarRef (shifted east to the next driveway)
1: move OceViewAve two blocks north to HinAve to line up with the US 101 interchange
1: FroRd -> SheBeaRd?
1: move SanSimSP north to the main entrance at SSCreRd
1: PtPieBla -> PieBlaLig?
1: ViaPieBla is on an old alignment
1: CouLineRd is a gated trail
1: LosBurRd -> WilCreRd (see the sign photo near the end)
1: LimBeaSP -> LimSP
1: RanBarRd is a private driveway
1: JohnLitSNR is a gated driveway
1: TanOakTr -> TanBarkTr
1: CHG16 -> CRG16
1: HillRd appears to be a driveway (note the address number matches SR 1)
1: 19thAve -> 19thAve_S?
1: FraDraBlvd_S -> FraDraBlvd_E, FraDraBlvd_N -> FraDraBlvd_W?
1: MarPetRd needs to move south a bit
1: SaltPtStPark -> SaltPtSP, or probably better as WooCam since there are multiple Salt Point SP turnoffs
1: StePtRd -> SkaSprRd since you're at Stewarts Point?
1: RusGulSP has no access; move north to BreRd (or is this PtCabDr? I can't find any signs for the former)
1: CasPtRd -> CasRd
1: MacParkRd -> MillCrkDr
1: CampTwoRd is a gated driveway; move just north to TenMileQua?
1: CanMtnRd[sic] has no sign; move west to HilTer?
1: Rd207 is a forest trail blocked by either a gate or a fallen tree
1: WesRd doesn't seem to exist

2: WilBlvd needs to move west to the intersection; BevBlvd is also a bit off
2: Why WestHolLim? if this is for a future truncation, should it be hidden like a shaping point?
2: 12A -> 12
2: is UBTujRd an appropriate abbreviation for Upper Big Tujunga Canyon Road? It seems to be a mix of first letters and dropping extra words.
2: PacMouRd -> SCDivRd
2: PacCreTr seems like a bad name, given that the trail parallels 2 for a while and crosses multiple times; maybe IslSad? or shift west as OldCA39?
2: BigPinHwy -> CRN4
2: FlaCanDr -> FluCanDr
2: move x72 north to DesFroRd?

3: OldCA36 -> RatRd
3: CarrCrkRd is a gated dirt road that dead-ends. East of Carr Creek is a dirt road with no signs.
3: MaxCrkRd is an unsigned dirt road. Move west to SumCrkRd?
3 goes out of tolerance south of CA299_E.
3/299: IndPkwy -> IndParkWay
3: NorRanRd intersects farther northeast
3: CarLp -> CarLpRd? (signed as such only at the south end)
3: PineLn -> CofCrkRd (the more important road here)
3: BearCrkLp needs to move north
3: IPRd -> ParCrkRd
3: HolAve -> ColWay
3: McAdaRd -> McACrkRd? McaCrkRd?
3: KinRd is blocked off
3: AirWay -> MonAirRd

4: 1B -> 1C, 2 -> 1
4 is missing a point at 3
4: 4 -> BarHillRd (and shift west a bit)
4: shift 13 west to the Solano Way bridge
4: 14 -> 15A, 15 -> 15B
4: 27A -> 27, delete 27B
4 is missing 35 (Balfour Road)
4: WasRd -> VasRd
4: CHJ4 -> CRJ4, CHJ2 -> CRJ2 (the latter needs to shift east)
4: x5 -> WhiSloRd
4: add a point at PortStoExpwy to connect to the new freeway extension
4: 65C is not currently on SR 4
4: 68 -> 68A, 69 -> 68B, delete CA99(253)
4: FarAve -> FarRd_W and shift it west a bit
4: CHJ5 -> CRJ5, CHJ6 -> CRJ6
4: MilRd -> CRJ14; goes out of tolerance east of here
4: HorLn -> HorDr and fix position
4: MainSt_Cop -> CRE15
4: ParFerRd -> CRE18
4: FolRd is a private gated road with no sign.
4: ForMeaRd -> ForMeaDr?
4: BigTrePkwy -> CalSP?
4: WolfCreRd -> WolfCrkRd? also needs to move east

7: NinaLeeRd -> CarrRd

9: MillSt -> GlenArbRd (more important)

11: CA125/905 -> 1A?

12: AguCalRd -> AguaCalRd
12: NapaSt -> NapaSt_W, Bro_N -> NapaSt_E
12: FreDr is just westbound 12, so these waypoints should be deleted
12: CA121 -> CA121_S
12: CA29 -> CA29_S
12: I-80(40A) has been moved east
12: PotRd -> GlaRd; shift west to the overpass?
12: CHJ* -> CRJ*
12: CA26_S -> CA26_W, CA26_N -> CA26_E

13: should 1B be added? it's not exactly the same interchange as 1A
13: I-80 -> I-80/580

14: CA14Trk -> I-5Trk; ca.ca014trknew is an I-5 truck route
14: CA178_S -> CA178_W, CA178_N -> CA178_E

16: RayRd -> Rd40
16 needs shaping points between ForAve and Rd79
16: YoloAve_N -> Rd87, YoloAve_S -> Rd21A
16: WildWinDr -> WilDr
16wil: FolBlvd -> FolBlvd_W, JacRd -> FolBlvd_E
16wil: VanVleRd doesn't exist

17 is missing a point at El Rancho Drive/La Madrona Drive (the underpass south of the ramps connects them).

[oscar]

Just an initial response from the road -- I've included in many of my systems hiking trails where there are gates to block vehicle access, but they're still open to the public. I think some of the gated trails you mention fall into that category, though I'll get more specific when I'm back home.

[neroute2]

18: CA38_N -> CA38_W, CA38_S -> CA38_E (directions per this sign)
18: RimNorSA -> SnowVal, or move it west to the proper road going north from 18
18: there's nothing at VeTr
18: CA330 should be midway between the two directions, not on the eastbound lanes

19: SteAve -> SteSt, WilAve -> WilSt
19: hide TemCityLim?

[oscar]

19: SteAve -> SteSt, WilAve -> WilSt
19: hide TemCityLim?

This, and other routes in the Los Angeles area (like CA 2), have parts relinquished to local jurisdictions, as part of a Caltrans effort to dump urban surface routes as much as possible and focus on the freeways. There have been relinquishments all over the state, but I've field-checked everything outside Los Angeles, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo counties, and I think I've figured out how to deal with them. You can help with the ones in those four counties (including CA 2, part of which I've already removed from the HB but there's another one in Beverly Hills I haven't figured out).

Caltrans' Postmile Query Tool is the best guide to what relinquishments have actually been carried out. The Streets and Highways Code will tell you what's been authorized, but some authorized relinquishments haven't been agreed to by the local governments, or they have been agreed to if Caltrans first fixes up the road before the local government will deign to take it off Caltrans' hands.

Most of CA 19 has been turned over to local governments, including the part including the SteAve and WilAve points. The PQT (make sure to turn on the "View County Boundaries, Routes, and Calibration Postmiles" option) indicates there are two disconnected fragments of CA 19 that haven't been relinquished. One is between Lakewood and Downey. The other is between Montebello and Temple City (at the TemCityLim point). To make things even more interesting, the second segment is technically unsigned CA 164, but is probably still signed as CA 19 (please check that out). Similar to CA 260 in Oakland, which is signed as part of CA 61 -- I put that in the HB as both CA 61 and CA 260.

My inclination is to remove everything from Lakewood south, and from Temple City north, since that wouldn't chop up CA 19 into little pieces. But is there enough old or continuation CA 19 signage (including on intersecting routes) to justify keeping the Downey-Montebello relinquished segment in the HB, for route continuity? There is a lot of reluctance on this forum to make mid-route relinquishment removals, such as the ones that would break CA 1 in four pieces. And unlike in Florida, state law generally treats relinquished route segments as to some extent still part of the route, and requires local jurisdictions to maintain continuation signage for their relinquished segments, though many local governments treat that requirement as a joke.

14: CA14Trk -> I-5Trk; ca.ca014trknew is an I-5 truck route

You're not the first on this forum to suggest that the dually-signed I-5/CA 14 truck route in Newhall be treated as an I-5 truck route. Caltrans logs it as route 5S, separate from (Interstate) route 5. I'm inclined to add it to the HB as I-5TrkNew (even though AASHTO has AFAIK never approved that addition to the system), and make the CA 14 label change you suggest.

[neroute2]

You're not the first on this forum to suggest that the dually-signed I-5/CA 14 truck route in Newhall be treated as an I-5 truck route. Caltrans logs it as route 5S, separate from (Interstate) route 5. I'm inclined to add it to the HB as I-5TrkNew (even though AASHTO has AFAIK never approved that addition to the system), and make the CA 14 label change you suggest.

It's a truck route *to* SR 14. There's nothing dual about the signage.
And since when does AASHTO approve truck lanes on a different alignment?

As for relinquishments, I'm the wrong person to ask. I think SR 91 still extends west to SR 1 and have it in my list file as such.

[yakra]

Similar to CA 260 in Oakland, which is signed as part of CA 61 -- I put that in the HB as both CA 61 and CA 260.

Is it signed as CA260 though?

[neroute2]

20: ShaLaLn is a private driveway with no sign
20: LitLakeRd is not marked, but there is CR 408 reassurance
20: 3ChopRd is a private driveway with no sign
20: Rd900 is a bit to the west; where does the name come from?
20: MuirCanRd -> MuirMillRd
20 has a GSJ with Rd230 east of US101(555B)
20: MeaViewAve doesn't exist
20: realign CA29 to the circle
20: realign NiceLucRd to the circle, rename NiceLucCut
20: FooDr is an unmarked dirt road; move west to BarSprRd?
20: RanVisRd -> RanVisDr
20: SulBankRd -> SulBankDr
20: move I-5BL west to the connector?
20: BriSt -> BriSt_N
20: ESt -> ESt_N, BSt -> BSt_S
20: MarRd -> CRE21
20: KeyLn -> SteTr (and shift east)
20: McGLn is gated and unmarked; there also has been a slight realignment here
20: RedLn is far west of where we have it
20: ChaRRd -> PennValDr_W, PenValDr -> PennValDr_E
20: PineFlatWay is way to the west
20: X323337 is misplaced and unnecessary

[oscar]

Similar to CA 260 in Oakland, which is signed as part of CA 61 -- I put that in the HB as both CA 61 and CA 260.

Is it signed as CA260 though?

Nope. Only signage is for CA 61, even though it isn't part of that route. Unless there are CA 260 postmiles I didn't notice on my field check, though postmiles tend to be scarce in high-density urban areas.

[yakra]

Wouldn't "signed as" be defined by reassurance or trailblazer shields, though?

[neroute2]

1: 433 -> 433A, 434 -> 433B, 436 -> 435, 437 -> 436, 438A -> 437, 438B -> 438
1: 505 -> 505A, 506 -> 505B, 506A -> 506, 509 -> 509A, 47B(280) -> 509B, 48(280) -> 510, 512 -> AleBlvd (512 isn't in the official list or on signs)
4: 14 -> 13 (and shift west to Solano Way), 15 -> 15A, 16 -> 15B
22: I-605 -> 2
23: US101(43) -> 12
23: BroRd_E -> Bro_E, BroRd_W -> Bro_W (for example, 2018 and 2016 versions of signage at the same intersection, neither of which has a suffix)
24: 2 -> 2B (or 2A?), 2A -> 2 (see the exit list)
24: move 13 east to 1st Street?
25: CH* -> CR*
26: CHJ* -> CRJ*
26: MilRd has been realigned
26: UppDorRd -> DorRd
26: move RabFootRd west to WooMineRd to keep it all within tolerance?
26: SanGulRd -> AssOffRd
28: TerDr -> TerAve
29: Tenst -> TenSt
29: CA12 -> CA12_E
29: LivRd -> Mon
29: delete x95
29: LakeSt -> LakeAve
29: not sure if the circle at HarRd is open or if we have a source for its location
29: HidValRd -> SprRdExt (the former is a members-only gate)
29: AguaDulDr is a fenced driveway with no signs
29: SieCanRd -> SeiCanRd
29: OldLLRd is an unsigned dirt track that's not necessary for shaping, but a shaping point is needed farther east
32: Rd190 -> 6thAve
32: WalSt -> WalSt_S
32: NopRd -> NopAve
33: move MainSt north to the connector?
33: FooTr is a private driveway
33: NatCanRd -> MatRd
33: NorRidRd is a private driveway
33: WheGorCam -> WheGorTr?
33: CheCrkRd -> OrtTr
33: GooCanRd doesn't exist
33: FR6N03 -> PotSecoRd?
33: BruCanRd appears to be a dirt driveway; move south to ApaCanRd?
33/166: move StuRd east
33/166: HudRsnRfd -> HudRanRd
33: JayAve -> JayAve_E
33: DerAve -> CoaMenRd
33: CHJ* -> CRJ*
33: 12thSt might be better at 13thSt?
33/140: 4thSt -> 4thSt_S
33: CRJ17 -> CRJ17_E, add CRJ17_W at Sperry Avenue (but it's not signed here?)
33: move CA132 to the connector?
34: PleValRd -> PleValRd_W, LewRd -> LewRd_S
35: BieRd is a private driveway with no signs
35: RapRanRd is a gated driveway with no signs
35: BlueJayWay -> KinMouRd
35: SloBlvd -> SloBlvd_W
36: MainSt -> RohRd
36: HayLn is a dirt track with no signs; move east to WilRd?
36: CorRanRd is a dirt road with no signs; move west to CumCrkRd (still no signs, but looks more important)
36: MarLn -> MarRd
36: not sure about ChiMineRd and StaRd; both have no signs
36: BoxCanRd is a private driveway and is unnecessary for shaping
36: KloMineRd -> KloRd
36: CHA* -> CRA*
36: BerRd -> BeeRd
36: SteRanRd has no sign and is unnecessary for shaping
36: TusSprRd is a gated driveway with no sign; move just west to HogLakeTr?
36: OldHwy36_W doesn't exist; there's a junction farther west but it's gated
36: OldHwy36_E is fenced off
36/89: LitRVTie (what does this stand for??) doesn't seem to exist
36: FreSpur (where's this name from?) appears to be a driveway to a storage building
36: EagLakeRd -> CRA1
37 is missing a GSJ at MarDr/HanRanRd and another at HarDr
37: LakHwy -> LakRd
38: LugAve -> LugAve_W
38: GarAve -> GarSt
38: OldConRd -> MtnHomeRd (Mountain Home Creek Road)
38: PipRd -> OnyxSum?
38: BigBearBlvd -> ShayRd
38: RimWorDr should move east to the main intersection
39azu: I-10/N8 -> I-10? Why include a county route here?
41: CotCrkRd doesn't exist
41: MainSt -> LauAve
41: Rd146 -> Rd416
41: PicRd -> Rd417 or MeaRidRd
41: BassLakeRd -> Rd222
41: SkyRanRd -> Rd632