usaush: United States Historic US Routes

[CharlotteAllisonCDTG]

I still didn't see one.

[oscar]

The historic route intersection with Harbor Drive is also where ramps to and from SB I-5 meet Harbor Drive.

I think the intersection being part of the I-5(54C) interchange, it's appropriate to include points for both I-5(54C) to reflect the tie-in to I-5, and Harbor Drive (the latter point helps show the historic route as parallel to I-5 on the old US 101 bridge over the San Luis Rey River).

I'm not sure how to fix the I-5(54A) point on the historic route. CA 76 appears to end at I-5, with the connector to the Coast Hwy. not officially part of the state highway (I can check my paper Caltrans logbooks, once I get back home, to confirm). Maybe move the point to the Coast Hwy./Mission Expy, intersection, and rename it MisExpy?

As someone who grew up in Oceanside, extending the historic route over the old San Luis River bridge looks right to me.

[mapcat]

I think the intersection being part of the I-5(54C) interchange, it's appropriate to include points for both I-5(54C) to reflect the tie-in to I-5, and Harbor Drive (the latter point helps show the historic route as parallel to I-5 on the old US 101 bridge over the San Luis Rey River).

Since it appears to begin where the ramps intersect Harbor Dr, I think one point at I-5(54C) would be good enough, although a shaping point on the bridge could make it easier to see if necessary, depending on what you do with the I-5(54A) point.

I'm not sure how to fix the I-5(54A) point on the historic route. CA 76 appears to end at I-5, with the connector to the Coast Hwy. not officially part of the state highway (I can check my paper Caltrans logbooks, once I get back home, to confirm). Maybe move the point to the Coast Hwy./Mission Expy, intersection, and rename it MisExpy?

That's how I would handle it, although this sign and this sign make it look like it's worth investigating the true end of CA 76.

[oscar]

^ I'm at home (briefly), was able to check out Caltrans' old paper logs as well as the more current online Postmile Query Tool. Both put CA 76's west end at I-5 rather than Coast Hwy (US 101 Historic), with CA 76's postmile 0.0 in the I-5 median. So I'm leaving CA 76 as is in the Highway Browser, even with the otherwise convincing signage shown in your GMSV links.

I think a labeled waypoint at the Coast Hwy./Harbor Dr. intersection (HarbDr_W, since there's an intersection with another Harbor Dr. in San Diego) best reflects the end of signage for the historic route, and the approximate north end of the old pavement (obliterated by the new I-5, until it resumes within the Marine Corps base). That also more clearly shows the historic route as separate from the parallel I-5, even with the moved and renamed I-5(54A) point on the south side of the river.

No signage on Harbor Dr. between Coast Hwy. and I-5, so I'm not as sure about including the I-5(54C) point as the historic route's north end just to maintain a graph connection with I-5 - @si404, any thoughts on that, as (I assume) the original drafter of the route file?

[si404]

I'd suggest one point per interchange means that the Coast Hwy / Harbor Dr intersection is part of the I-5 interchange. The intersection is, after all, a crossroads with the southbound carriageway's ramps opposite Coast Hwy.

Moving the point with not-CA76 should make it separate enough from I-5.

[oscar]

I'd suggest one point per interchange means that the Coast Hwy / Harbor Dr intersection is part of the I-5 interchange. The intersection is, after all, a crossroads with the southbound carriageway's ramps opposite Coast Hwy.

Moving the point with not-CA76 should make it separate enough from I-5.

Gotcha. I-5(54C), and I-5(54A) => MisExpy (relocated to Coast Hwy.), it is.

I can implement those changes later this weekend, before I disappear for a week camping in western Massachusetts.

EDIT: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3061

[cl94]

Former US 66 in NM has the pre-1937 alignment signed on surface roads in a couple places not shown on TM:

- Santa Fe to I-25 Exit 339 follows the frontage road ("Old Las Vegas Highway" or "Frontage Road 2116") where it exists
- The old alignment in Albuquerque and south/West, following 4th Street, Bridge Blvd, and Isleta Blvd to NM 314, thence south to NM 6 and west along NM 6 to I-40. Yes, this means that all four legs of the Central/4th intersection in Downtown Albuquerque are signed as "Historic 66". I did NOT see if signs exist north/east of where 4th crosses I-40, but it is possible.

[si404]

The old alignment in Albuquerque and south/West, following 4th Street, Bridge Blvd, and Isleta Blvd to NM 314, thence south to NM 6 and west along NM 6 to I-40. Yes, this means that all four legs of the Central/4th intersection in Downtown Albuquerque are signed as "Historic 66". I did NOT see if signs exist north/east of where 4th crosses I-40, but it is possible.

When the files were made, I couldn't see any signs between I-25/US550 and that Central/4th intersection. Nor any south of Central. There's also the issue that 4th disappears at the Civic Plaza. But that's because the GMSV wasn't that good/recent and I didn't know the route well enough to target my search in the right places.

edit: found a couple of signs at I-40/NM6. There's this unhelpfully unarrowed one at NM6/NM314. And another couple where NM314 turns at either end of Isleta Blvd. Struggling to find anything on 4th or north other than at Central - which was the original problem.

Amarillo is another place where I've struggled to pin Historic 66: there's far too much going on.

[yakra]

Amarillo is another place where I've struggled to pin Historic 66: there's far too much going on.

Prominently signed on TXLp279, especially west of GeoSt.
Eastbound and westbound at I-20BL, the turns are signed well enough I suppose, if not at a complete 100%.
Spotted some more signage on Fillmore AKA US87 AKA historic US66Bus, but haven't looked beyond there because short attention span. I do know that at the I-20BL connector from US60 to I-40 Exit 85, signage is lacking.

[si404]

Amarillo is another place where I've struggled to pin Historic 66: there's far too much going on.

Prominently signed on TXLp279, especially west of GeoSt.
Eastbound and westbound at I-20BL, the turns are signed well enough I suppose, if not at a complete 100%.
Spotted some more signage on Fillmore AKA US87 AKA historic US66Bus, but haven't looked beyond there because short attention span. I do know that at the I-20BL connector from US60 to I-40 Exit 85, signage is lacking.

By 'far too much going on', I mean with signs in Amarillo.

Amarillo has started using proper signs

Someone has made a (not up-to-date) map of where the green/white (and occasional 'OLD US66' brown) signs are. It's a little bit of a hot mess - which is why I've not made a file for it.

[si404]

Let's document this 'PRE-1937' (as some signs banner it) alignment via Santa Fe in order to rejig parts that aren't quite right:

eastbound:

• I-40 approaching NM6
• I-40 at NM6
• I-25 ramp at NM6
• NM6 at NM314
• Nothing at NM314 TOTSO with NM45
• NM314 at NM147
• I-25 at NM314
• NM314 TOTSO at Goff Blvd
• Just before TOTSO at Bridge Blvd
• Nothing at Bridge/4th TOTSO
• 4-way shields at 4th/Central
• Nothing helping you around Civic Square pedestrianised area
• Nothing on I-40/frontage roads around the exits for 2nd/4th/6th/12th
• 4th at Guadaloupe Trail
• 4th in Los Ranchos
• NM47 at 4th
• Nothing at NM313 / NM556 roundabout
• NM473 at NM313
• Nothing at NM313/US550
• Nothing at US550/I-25
• Nothing at I-25/NM14
• Nothing through Santa Fe
• Nothing at Old Pecos Trail / NM466
• Nothing at NM466 / NM300 or I-25
• I-25 approaching NM50
• Nothing in Pecos
• NM67/I-25
• I-25 and Frontage Road
• I-25/US84
• Nothing at US84/I-40

westbound:

• Nothing at US84/I-40
• US84 at NM119
• I-25 and Frontage Road
• NM67/I-25
• Nothing in Pecos
• I-25/NM466
• Nothing at NM466/Old Pecos Road
• Water Street, Santa Fe
• Nothing at NM14/I-25
• I-25 approaching US550
• I-25/US550
• Nothing at US550/NM313
• NM473 at NM313
• Los Ranchos
• 4-way at Central
• Nothing at 4th/Bridge TOTSO
• Bridge/Isleta TOTSO
• near Arenal Road TOTSO
• Nothing at NM45 TOTSO
• Nothing at NM314/NM6 TOTSO
• Nothing at NM6/I-40

I've tweaked the existing file to better match, but I've not chopped it (which might be an idea) up: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3085

[mapmikey]

Amarillo is another place where I've struggled to pin Historic 66: there's far too much going on.

Prominently signed on TXLp279, especially west of GeoSt.
Eastbound and westbound at I-20BL, the turns are signed well enough I suppose, if not at a complete 100%.
Spotted some more signage on Fillmore AKA US87 AKA historic US66Bus, but haven't looked beyond there because short attention span. I do know that at the I-20BL connector from US60 to I-40 Exit 85, signage is lacking.

Also posted on Amarillo Blvd. east of downtown - https://goo.gl/maps/5RwbqCkGDox1pNa26 and https://goo.gl/maps/xTGdyJrNXtV69zHQ9

Did not see anything EB past this back out to I-40

[si404]

Eastbound on I-40, this and this are where its signed - some way east of where Lp279 turns off I-40BL.

There's signage on Georgia Street, but not Western. Made a route goes on the frontage roads from exit 67 to 68B and up Georgia Street to Lp279, as well as the BL40-Lp279-US87-BL40 route.

[mapmikey]

Eastbound on I-40, this and this are where its signed - some way east of where Lp279 turns off I-40BL.

There's signage on Georgia Street, but not Western. Made a route goes on the frontage roads from exit 67 to 68B and up Georgia Street to Lp279, as well as the BL40-Lp279-US87-BL40 route.

The signage from I-40 at Georgia and Western is odd as neither of those streets has ever been part of US 66 as far as I can tell...?  The point of the signs is likely meant to be TO Historic US 66 as opposed to posting the actual historic route.

[si404]

The signage from I-40 at Georgia and Western is odd as neither of those streets has ever been part of US 66 as far as I can tell...?  The point of the signs is likely meant to be TO Historic US 66 as opposed to posting the actual historic route.

True, but there are no 'TO' banners at all, and if they were looking for 'TO' connections from I-40, you'd have thought signing eastbound before Western - most notably on the free-flow connection along I-40BL that's really rather short - would have surely made more sense.

It seems that the old signage along Georgia that the city had installed has gone, but that they signed it as if it was Historic US66, despite it never being such...