cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)

[oscar]

Are you doing anything that would mean big changes, such as to CSVs?

Yes, the csv changes from splitting SK 22 into two segments, and adding four SK 17 segments.

[oscar]

SK26
 
...

-move WP14 "SK3_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP23 "SK795_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP25 "BacCorRd_N" further south (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)

The new alignments (one of which would also affect the SK 3 route file) are shown in Google Maps and its satellite imagery, but not OSM/Mapnik. It looks like Google's mapping is more up to date, but we can't grab coordinates from that commercial source. So I'd stick with existing waypoints from the open-source OSM/Mapnik data, unless and until it gets updated.

The HERE maps in the Highway Browser agree with Google on these intersections. However, I'm unsure whether it is a permissible source for coordinates, or rather uses Google data (it seems to often match Google mapping) and so would also be off-limits. Also, our existing waypoint editor doesn't let us grab coordinates directly from HERE, even if it is a permissible source.

SK27
-adjust location of WP0 "SK41/784" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)

I'm dubious about this one. Google Maps shows the realignment, but not its satellite view, nor any other online mapping including HERE. Even if the intersection location changed in the field, we don't have open-source coordinates for the new location, so like some similar situations noted above for SK 26, I'm leaving this alone.

We just redid our highway browser, and waypoint editor. The new versions don't include Google Maps and its satellite imagery, due to a policy change by Google. However, both new versions add a variety of other mapping sources, including at least one (ESRI World Imagery) that looks like a decent replacement for Google Maps' satellite imagery. Other mapping sources might also replace Google Maps for spotting or confirming where waypoints might need to be updated.

I'll look over the intersections flagged above, and others you mentioned, to move the waypoints as appropriate.

[julmac]

We just redid our highway browser, and waypoint editor. The new versions don't include Google Maps and its satellite imagery, due to a policy change by Google. However, both new versions add a variety of other mapping sources, including at least one (ESRI World Imagery) that looks like a decent replacement for Google Maps' satellite imagery. Other mapping sources might also replace Google Maps for spotting or confirming where waypoints might need to be updated.

I'll look over the intersections flagged above, and others you mentioned, to move the waypoints as appropriate.

I'm really liking 'Esri WorldGrayCanvas' (even though "Grey" is spelled oddly), but am also really missing Street View, particularly because it has a date stamp. Those intersection relocations are evident from GMSV.

[julmac]

My notes for routes 31 through 40:

SK31
-change WP13 "SK771" --> "SK675/771"

SK32
-add WP @ "SK634" (Lancer Ferry Road)

SK34
- WP0 (*) in front of "MT/SK"?

SK35
- change WP37 "SK10/22" --> "SK10_E"
- SP77 is miss-located slightly
- add WP @ Ridgedale Access Road

SK36
- change WP4 "PopMineRd" --> "SK602"

SK37
- add WPs in Gull Lake @ 2nd Street to remove ambiguity (important because Google Maps routes it along Main Street). OSM routing is as signed in the field.

SK39
- move WP17 "SK621" one bock north and rename to "SK621_S"
- add WP @ "SK621_N" (south end of Yellow Grass)
- add WP @ Roche Percée Access Road

SK40
-add WP @ "SK680" (Artland Road)
-add WP @ Battleford Rd (match with TCHYel WPs)
-add WP @ "SK16B_E" (match with TCHYel WPs)

[oscar]

SK34
- WP0 (*) in front of "MT/SK"?

The asterisk means it's a closed intersection, since the road is now barricaded at the border and you can no longer legally continue (even on foot) to the road on the other side, Montana secondary route 511. SR 511 also has an asterisk on its northernmost waypoint. We also made a point of leaving SK 34 and SR 511's border points slightly out of synch, so the Highway Browser doesn't mistakenly identify them as intersecting routes.

SK35
- change WP37 "SK10/22" --> "SK10_E"
- SP77 is miss-located slightly

The rename of WP37 was just added to the HB, as part of this weekend's pull request which split SK 22 in two.

I'm not sure where SP77 is located, since the previous edits to SK 35 changed the waypoint numbers. My guess is it's one of the two shaping points between SK773 and SK776. Neither SP needs to be changed if no other change to the file is needed, but I'll look at your suggested additional SK 35 change later and if I make that change I'll tweak the SPs while I'm at it.

I'll get to other comments later.

[vdeane]

We just redid our highway browser, and waypoint editor. The new versions don't include Google Maps and its satellite imagery, due to a policy change by Google. However, both new versions add a variety of other mapping sources, including at least one (ESRI World Imagery) that looks like a decent replacement for Google Maps' satellite imagery. Other mapping sources might also replace Google Maps for spotting or confirming where waypoints might need to be updated.

The issue with ESRI World Imagery is, if it's the same one used as a basemap by ArcMap, is that it's years behind Google's.  Unfortunately, I don't have an alternative to suggest.

[oscar]

The issue with ESRI World Imagery is, if it's the same one used as a basemap by ArcMap, is that it's years behind Google's.  Unfortunately, I don't have an alternative to suggest.

In the views I used for the edits in my latest pull request, ESRI WI was as up to date in SK (or out of date in Hawaii) as Google Maps satellite view.

[vdeane]

Hmm... either the version used for ArcMap is way out of date compared to what we have, or they updated it in the last few months.  I recall several sections where it was out of date when doing the ADA inventory update last year.

[oscar]

SK31
-change WP13 "SK771" --> "SK675/771"

In my local copy.

SK32
-add WP @ "SK634" (Lancer Ferry Road)

Added SK639 in my local copy, replacing BalSt less than a quarter-mile away.

SK35
- add WP @ Ridgedale Access Road

What looks like the access road's intersection with SK 35 is only about a half-mile from existing waypoint SK748. Not worth adding.

SK36
- change WP4 "PopMineRd" --> "SK602"

SK37
- add WPs in Gull Lake @ 2nd Street to remove ambiguity (important because Google Maps routes it along Main Street). OSM routing is as signed in the field.

All changed or added in my local copy.

SK39
- move WP17 "SK621" one bock north and rename to "SK621_S"
- add WP @ "SK621_N" (south end of Yellow Grass)
- add WP @ Roche Percée Access Road

Made to my local copy. OSM thinks the Roche Percee access road intersection with SK 39 (which appears to be right next to the boundary between two rural municipalities) is closed. But that's an outlier, and the Highways and Infrastructure ministry recently did some major work on one of the access road's bridges, so I doubt it was planning to disconnect the access road from SK 39.

SK40
-add WP @ "SK680" (Artland Road)
-add WP @ Battleford Rd (match with TCHYel WPs)
-add WP @ "SK16B_E" (match with TCHYel WPs)

I added the point for ArtRd. Didn't see in GMSV signs confirming that it's SK 680.

Good catch on the broken concurrence with TCHYel.

===

That addresses all your comments up to SK 40. I'll put in a pull request for my edits, unless you have comments in progress on the 41-49 routes. I'll be out of town for a few weeks starting next Monday, so I'll aim for a pull request this weekend with what I have by then. EDIT: Changes for SK 31-40 submitted, and pulled into the HB.

[julmac]

My notes for routes 41 through 49:

SK41
- move WP3  "SK27/784" (as with SK27) to match intersection re-alignment

SK44
- move WP1 "ToAB570" to the intersection north of the curve and rename to "ToAB570_N"
- move WP2 "RR293" to the west and rename as "ToAB570_E"
- change WP10 RR261 -->"SK635"

SK47
- add WPs @ "SK704_E" (Rge Rd 32) and "SK704_W" (Rge Rd 34) north of Estevan

SK48
- change WP19 SK617 -->"SK617_N"
- change WP21 3St --> "SK617_S"

SK49
- add WP @ Twp Rd 332 (between WP25 "SK8/661" and WP26 "SK648") for shaping purposes

[oscar]

SK41
- move WP3  "SK27/784" (as with SK27) to match intersection re-alignment

I discussed this when you raised it for SK 27. I looked at GMSV again, and the 2016 imagery convinces me that the intersection was relocated as indicated in Google Maps. But none of the other online maps available to us show the relocation. AIUI, we can't use Google Maps, or GMSV, to grab coordinates for our route files without potentially running afoul of Google's terms of service. That means leaving the waypoint as is (for SK 27 as well as SK 41), at least until other online maps are updated or we come up with some other open-source coordinates for the new intersection location.

Some very recent shapefiles might give us what we need, assuming they've been updated at this low-population location. If the Infrastructure ministry doesn't do annual or bi-annual collections of updated shapefile data for all its highways, it might not have updated this location, even though it's not that far from major city Saskatoon.

SK44
- move WP1 "ToAB570" to the intersection north of the curve and rename to "ToAB570_N"
- move WP2 "RR293" to the west and rename as "ToAB570_E"
- change WP10 RR261 -->"SK635"

Above changes made in my local copy, except I moved ToAB570 to the place where you proposed ToAB570_E, and deleted RR293 in favor of a new shaping point a few miles east. I don't think we need two separate ToAB570 points, and the one at the eastern leg of the junction seems more sensible.

SK47
- add WPs @ "SK704_E" (Rge Rd 32) and "SK704_W" (Rge Rd 34) north of Estevan

SK48
- change WP19 SK617 -->"SK617_N"
- change WP21 3St --> "SK617_S"

SK49
- add WP @ Twp Rd 332 (between WP25 "SK8/661" and WP26 "SK648") for shaping purposes

All in my local copy.

I'll put in a pull request for these changes in the next few days, unless you plan another batch of comments by this weekend.

[yakra]

AIUI, we can't use Google Maps, or GMSV, to grab coordinates for our route files without potentially running afoul of Google's terms of service. That means leaving the waypoint as is (for SK 27 as well as SK 41), at least until other online maps are updated or we come up with some other open-source coordinates for the new intersection location.

Some very recent shapefiles might give us what we need, assuming they've been updated at this low-population location.

SK27/784 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.319059&lon=-106.26057
Interesting -- check it out in ESRI WorldImagery -- looks like the ROW is longer being farmed.

[oscar]

Thanks, yakra. I'll insert the point into the SK 27 and SK 41 files, and pull them in, once the pending pull request for the rest of SK peer review up to SK 49 is processed.

[julmac]

My notes for routes 51 through 99:

SK54
- delete WP4  "RaiAve" (not signed past "CenSt")

SK55
- add WP @ SK691 (east of SK255)

SK56
- add WP @ fork east of Lebret ("OldHwy10" or "LebretAccRd")
- change WP12 "SK22/35" --> "SK35"

[oscar]

My notes for routes 51 through 99:

SK54
- delete WP4  "RaiAve" (not signed past "CenSt").

As discussed upthread, the shapefiles and 2016 provincial traffic count report indicate SK 54 continues past CenSt to RaiAve. I agree the turn north of the CenSt waypoint is not signed, but otherwise RaiAve seems to be the appropriate endpoint.

There are discussions upthread of where I got help from the shapefiles on some higher-numbered routes (especially the 1xx northern primary routes), which you might look up as your review goes into the three-digit routes.

SK55
- add WP @ SK691 (east of SK255)

In my local copy. There is already an SK691 waypoint west of SK6, which I've renamed SK691_N with the new point becoming SK691_S.

SK56
- add WP @ fork east of Lebret ("OldHwy10" or "LebretAccRd")
- change WP12 "SK22/35" --> "SK35"

Second item done in my local copy. I'm not sure about the first, unless it's something you need for your own list file. The new point would be about a kilometer from an existing point, and is not helpful for shaping. It's an unnamed road in the online maps I've looked up and in the 2008 MapArt atlas, which suggests it's no longer a significant road even if it once was part of SK 10.

EDIT: The changes made in my local route file copies are now in the Highway Browser.

NOTE TO SELF: Construction ongoing for SK 11 relocation near Warman, and relocation/extension of SK 305 between RR3045 and new SK 11 alignment (relocation between RR3045 and old SK 11 alignment occurred by August 2018 visit). New alignment open to NB 11 traffic, could open soon to SB 11 traffic if crews can beat winter weather, otherwise in 2019. Unclear whether SK 305 extension is open. Project completion, including improvements to SK 12, targeted for August 2019. Construction completed enough for me to put into the HB the new SK 11 alignment, short extension of SK 305, and tweak of one SK 12 waypoint.