NC: US17BusTrkEli

[mapcat]

These two different routes have the same .list name showing in the HB (US17BusEli). The .csvs are ok, so it looks like the BusTrk in the banner field is getting truncated to 3 characters.


http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=mapcat&r=nc.us017buseli
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=mapcat&r=nc.us017bustrkeli


If it's not possible to have 6-character banners, I suggest changing the second one to us017trkeli.

[mapmikey]

A broader solution may be required.  There is also US17AltTrkSum in South Carolina which is not near US 17.

Perhaps changing the name to US17ATrkEli and US17ATrkSum would work? Nomenclature is similar to NY9PTrkSar.

[Jim]

Both the banner and abbrev fields are truncated to 3 characters in the DB.

I should add a datacheck for this.  I even already have a GitHub issue about the problem, so this is a good reminder for me to try to implement this before the semester rush hits.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/56

[yakra]

Several double-bannered routes exist in usausb:
usausb;SC;US17;AltTrk;Sum;Summerville, SC;sc.us017alttrksum;
usausb;NC;US17;BusTrk;Eli;Elizabeth City, NC;nc.us017bustrkeli;
usausb;TN;US31;AltBus;Lew;Lewisburg, TN;tn.us031altbuslew;
usausb;TN;US41;AltByp;Cla;Clarksville, TN;tn.us041altbypcla;
usausb;TN;US70;AltByp;Hum;Humboldt, TN;tn.us070altbyphum;
usausb;VA;US258;BusAlt;Smi;Smithfield, VA;va.us258busaltsmi;
(Three for mapmikey; three for mapcat.)
I have not checked to see whether any exist in other systems.

If it's not possible to have 6-character banners, I suggest changing the second one to us017trkeli.

Seconded. To clarify, I agree with the whole statement, as a conditional.

A broader solution may be required.

Seconded.

Perhaps changing the name to US17ATrkEli and US17ATrkSum would work? Nomenclature is similar to NY9PTrkSar.

I read this as, include the 'A' or 'B' as part of "route" field, and use just a 3-character banner.
The nationwide convention for usausb has always been to use Alt/Bus/Byp/etc. banners instead of A/B/etc. suffixes, even if they're signed the latter way in a given state. State systems are a different beast, and letter suffixes have been allowed.

A workaround that would avoid breaking with this convention, and keep the intended .list names in place, would be to just include the whole first banner in the route field:
usausb;SC;US17Alt;Trk;Sum;Summerville, SC;sc.us017alttrksum;
usausb;NC;US17Bus;Trk;Eli;Elizabeth City, NC;nc.us017bustrkeli;
usausb;TN;US31Alt;Bus;Lew;Lewisburg, TN;tn.us031altbuslew;
usausb;TN;US41Alt;Byp;Cla;Clarksville, TN;tn.us041altbypcla;
usausb;TN;US70Alt;Byp;Hum;Humboldt, TN;tn.us070altbyphum;
usausb;VA;US258Bus;Alt;Smi;Smithfield, VA;va.us258busaltsmi;
...But I also downvote this, as it would break the View Associated Routes feature.

Both the banner and abbrev fields are truncated to 3 characters in the DB.

I should add a datacheck for this.  I even already have a GitHub issue about the problem, so this is a good reminder for me to try to implement this before the semester rush hits.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/56

I favor allowing 6-character banners. CHM had support for this (check out the shield images).
Currently, the TM shield generator doesn't do banners for usausb, just a single letter suffix. Whether/when/how to change this is a topic for the Clinched Routes Highway Shields thread, but I think 6-character banners would be a Good Thing if we decided to move toward a more CHM-style presentation using the banner field in the future.

2-character banners: at least usaok & usaga use "Lp", and usaib has "BL" & "BS".
I'm unaware of any of these in a double-bannered route, but still think distinguishing between 2+3 (EG, "LpBus") & 3+2 (EG, "BusLp") banner values is a good idea.

How to split a 4+ character banner string into multiple single-banner enumerators? Can't just have a capital letter begin a new one, due to "BL" & "BS". Maybe when a capital letter is followed by lower case... Such a solution would not require changes to existing system CSV files.
Another idea is to have comma-separated values in the banner field, akin to how the AltRouteNames field is implemented now. This would require changes to system CSVs.
Just tossing ideas around; don't know how either of these would impact existing PHP/scripts/code in the Web/ repository.
I think the 6-character banner idea would be more of its own separate GitHub issue than the existing #56. Edit: Web #191 fits the bill.

[mapmikey]

The us258busAlt route should be deleted.  It is VA 258 ALT which is also in the HB.  It is erroneously posted as US 258 ALT (never been posted with Bus and ALT banners...only ALT) and has been posted as VA 258 ALT previously.

Although not problematic in the way this thread discusses, US 220 ALT Roanoke is also incorrect, despite its posting in the field.  It is VA 220 ALT.

[yakra]

has been posted as VA 258 ALT previously

How recently, though? I don't see anything in GMSV in the last 10 years.

These routes are walking a tightrope between Sign-Os, unsigned routes, and US Routes...

[mapmikey]

It is officially VA 258 ALT and always has been.  Not sure why it matters that it is erroneously posted.

It was posted as VA 258 ALT from both directions of VA 10: WB until btw 2003-07 and EB until btw 2007-09.


Froggie, 2003


Froggie, 2003
This one made it to 2007 GMSV

[si404]

Italy has 'Racc' banners, which I abbreviate to Rac due to the cap.

There's a couple of double bannered routes in Italy, but they might not be signed like that.

[Jim]

I don't think expanding the size of the banner field is hard at all.  It's a little more space in the DB, but in the big picture, it's minor.  Is 6 characters sufficient?  I only worry about unintended consequences.

[yakra]

Is 6 characters sufficient?  I only worry about unintended consequences.

Think so, hope so, don't know for sure.
I'm going to reread through these threads and see what I see:
OH: Defiance Alternate Truck Route List Names
Field lengths in csv files and DB fields <- yeah yeah, right here!

Edit: What does LongFields have to say?
The former longest datum, "Business", was changed to "Bus". If the new max length is 6 characters, we may be all good.
I can't think of anything anywhere using 3 or more banners. Can anyone else?

[yakra]

Not sure why it matters that it is erroneously posted.

Doesn't all that much, really.
I was worried about semi-unsigned routes, and those sticky "Does this belong in this system, or this system?" situations.
You know way more about what makes Virginia tick than I do, so I'll defer to your knowledge here.

[michih]

These two different routes have the same .list name showing in the HB (US17BusEli). The .csvs are ok, so it looks like the BusTrk in the banner field is getting truncated to 3 characters.

http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=mapcat&r=nc.us017buseli
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=mapcat&r=nc.us017bustrkeli

If it's not possible to have 6-character banners, I suggest changing the second one to us017trkeli.

They show up as

• NC US17BusEli
• NC US17BusTrkEli

I think it's fine, isn't it? Maybe anything was changed meanwhile?

Marking as solved?