fraoccdXX: Occitanie Routes Départementales

[michih]

fraoccm31 - Toulouse Métropole Routes Métropolitaines will be in preview with the next site update. More than 100 routes for more than 250 miles.

It's the last system in Occitanie! All will be ready for peer-review from tomorrow

[si404]

fraoccm31 - Toulouse Métropole Routes Métropolitaines will be in preview with the next site update. More than 100 routes for more than 250 miles.

It's the last system in Occitanie! All will be ready for peer-review from tomorrow

After gestating for 9 months...

Toulouse Métropole Routes Métropolitaines:

M1, M1Dre, M1C, M1D, M1E, M2, M2Ore, M2A, M2B, M2C, M4 - fine

M4ToS - D4/D4C -> D4?

M4D, M14*, M14A, M15 - fine

M15Cug - check D15_Vil location as a relatively long way NE of where OSM has the municipal boundary

M15Mon, M15C, M16, M16F, M18*, M18D, M20*, M23, M24*, M24CuE, M24CuW, M24C, M24D - fine

M35A - check D35A location (surely at municipal boundary at Chemin de Peyre d'Escale?)

M37 - check D37_Dau and D37_Leg locations (surely Daux/Mondonville and Brax/Leguevin borders rather than somewhere random a significant (rather than slight) distance away from them?)

M37F - fine

*routes with stars have transitions to D roads near, but not on, OSM municipal boundaries. Mentioned only when significantly off. I'm going to hold off continuing until this issue is addressed, as it's my main complaint and so if the transition points are confirmed as being in the right place, or moved to the right place, then the review will go a lot quicker.

[michih]

*routes with stars have transitions to D roads near, but not on, OSM municipal boundaries. Mentioned only when significantly off. I'm going to hold off continuing until this issue is addressed, as it's my main complaint and so if the transition points are confirmed as being in the right place, or moved to the right place, then the review will go a lot quicker.

As notified in README.md, there is an official data set for the Haute Garonne (fraoccd31) routes. They are excluding the M routes, thus I had "border points" between the D and M routes. Unfortunately, https://www.teresco.org/tmtools_demos/gisplunge/FRA/Haute_Garonne/ is not available anymore but the latest files (like Haute Garonne) are available under /home/www/yakra/tmtools_demos/gisplunge/FRA/Haute_Garonne though. There should be one file per route, e.g. one wpt file for D1 which has an interuption for M1. However, there are 56 D1 file and only my local copy is one-file. I don't remember how @yakra provided the files to me which I actually used.

[si404]

I'm going to continue, and won't bother with the border points, on the assumption that they will be investigated.

M50, M50Tou, M50D, M50E, M54 - all fine

M57 - does it extend east along M66 to D57?

M57Ore - fine

M59 - M14_E/W -> M14_N/S ?

M59A, M59B, M59E, M61 - all fine

M63 - M2_W/E -> M2_N/S ?

M63A, M63B, M63E, M63G, M63H, M63J, M63W, M63WTou - all fine
M64, M64Aus, M64Bal, M64C, M64D, M64F, M65, M65B, M66, M66D, M66H, M68 - all fine
M70, M70A, M70B, M70E, M70G, M70W, M77, M77Bea, M77A, M77C, M77F, M77G - all fine
M82, M82C, M94, M112, M113 - all fine

M113A - the eastern end is a complex junction. Does the M113A reach the A61? Does the M916 reach the A620? The current situation of mapping both M roads ending at a roundabout with ramps from both Autoroutes (and labelling it on both as the M road, not the higher status A road they haven't had a junction with) seems poor.

M113AToW, M120 - both fine

M120A - M923/D980 -> M923/M980

M120N, M126, M188, M632, M632W, M820, M824, M826, M888, M901, M902 - all fine

M904B - add point for Rue Leon Jounaux to match point on M63W

M914 - fine

M916
 - M113A -> A620 and move? (see M113A)
 - add point for GSJ with Rue des Cosmonautes

M923 - fine

M924 - N124 -> N224

M924A, M964, M980 - all fine

[michih]

I'm going to continue, and won't bother with the border points, on the assumption that they will be investigated.

Investigated by whom? I positioned non-region-border-wps to the best of my knowledge when drafting the routes. At shp file location, at a sign, at a km post/stone, change in pavement or - if no other source - where OSM indicates the border. Not so accurate from the very beginning (first systems drafted) but OCC routes for sure. I'm not sure how important the exact locations are as long as they are between the right junction wps. I agree on region (especially country) border location accuracy but departement borders are less important IMO. I won't check them again as I spent a lot of time on it when drafting.

Edit: It's "funny" (= sad) that shp file locations (most reliable source) are often not confirmed by actual situation on-site (GSV)

[si404]

Investigated by whom?

By you.

I positioned non-region-border-wps to the best of my knowledge when drafting the routes. At shp file location, at a sign, at a km post/stone, change in pavement or - if no other source - where OSM indicates the border. Not so accurate from the very beginning (first systems drafted) but OCC routes for sure.

Fine then. That explains OSM showing the border at logical boundaries like streams, and you were having it at some seemingly random point 10 or 20 metres away.

I don't think we ever had this issue on other systems, even those drafted earlier. Though here we're looking at a lower status boundary than departmental ones.

I'm not sure how important the exact locations are as long as they are between the right junction wps. I agree on region (especially country) border location accuracy but departement borders are less important IMO.

Fair enough.

Though if exact locations don't matter much, then why bother going to the effort of doing signs, km posts, pavement changes, etc rather than just doing the easy thing of using the OSM boundary? Your behaviour suggests that the exact location does matter to you!

I won't check them again as I spent a lot of time on it when drafting.

OK, if you are sure. I think its worth double checking where there's a decent discrepancy between OSM and your data (ie the ones I mention explicitly, rather than just star).

[michih]

Your behaviour suggests that the exact location does matter to you!

It was important to me till I realized that shp file data (most reliable source about actual maintenance boundaries) does often not match the actual signage. Nevertheless, I didn't give up trying to draft the boundaries to the best of my knowledge. But then, it was in OCC - Hautes-Pyrénées and Haute-Garonne if memory serves - where shp file coords of one departement did not match the shp file coords of the other departement  The coords overlapped each other Which data is correct? Where should I locate the wps? What can be more reliable than shp files?
That's why departement boundary wp locations are not very important to me anymore. We often just talk about some meter or some hundreds meter at maximum. All in the same region...

I think its worth double checking where there's a decent discrepancy between OSM and your data (ie the ones I mention explicitly, rather than just star).

Yep, I will check whatever you explicitly mention

[michih]

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6083

M15Cug - check D15_Vil location as a relatively long way NE of where OSM has the municipal boundary

Exact coords from D15's shp file of Haute Garonne. There are eleven shp file points between it and where OSM indicates the border.

M35A - check D35A location (surely at municipal boundary at Chemin de Peyre d'Escale?)

Same here but 18 shp file points in-between.

M37 - check D37_Dau and D37_Leg locations (surely Daux/Mondonville and Brax/Leguevin borders rather than somewhere random a significant (rather than slight) distance away from them?)

Same.

M57 - does it extend east along M66 to D57?

No evidence on April 2022 GSV - neither western junction nor eastern junction.

M63 - M2_W/E -> M2_N/S ?

No, M63 is a NS route

M113A - the eastern end is a complex junction. Does the M113A reach the A61? Does the M916 reach the A620? The current situation of mapping both M roads ending at a roundabout with ramps from both Autoroutes (and labelling it on both as the M road, not the higher status A road they haven't had a junction with) seems poor.

M916's km0 is at the roundabout according to February 2022 GSV and I kept the graph connection with the motorways this way. The only other option I could imagine is having a 1PPI by moving A61's and A620's wps to the roundabout too.

[michih]

Jim run an update, the changes (all but BFC-90) are live now

[michih]

Further comments on fraoccm31 Toulouse Métropole Routes Métropolitaines before activation?

[si404]

If you've done the due diligence (looks like you have) then I have nothing more to say.

[michih]

fraoccm31 - Toulouse Métropole Routes Métropolitaines will be activated with the next site update.