usatr: United States select tourist routes

[neroute2]

There don't seem to be any GRR signs on the Dubuque Wisconsin Bridge in either state, and signs point it off US 151 in Iowa and Wisconsin. So that would mean IA GRRDub should only be the part south of US61/151_S (which is only implicitly signed, so maybe it shouldn't exist at all, but it's officially part of the national route as signed from Illinois), and WI GRR should eat WI GRREDu.

PS: coloring https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=usatr by traveler count and looking for black segments can help find broken overlaps.

[Markkos1992]

I worked today to make changes for syncing in regard to the LECT, Seaman Trail, and Lincoln Hwy. 

There are NMPs near the US 30/PA 234 intersection so there will be at least one more pull request in regard to this.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7322

On a side note, LakShoDr_N>-LakeShoDr_N and the new HayDr point on US 41 need to be added to the LMCT.  (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=6140.msg34083#msg34083)

[Duke87]

I'm fine with keeping the system around. We have systems like this in other parts of the world, it's entirely logical to have them in North America too.

That said, I would suggest keeping the scope of this system limited to routes signed with shields that span multiple jurisdictions. Great River Road, Historic Lincoln Highway, etc... this is the type of stuff people have wanted and that we're answering demand for. But many states maintain a bunch of their own named tourist routes (usually entirely concurrent with routes already in other systems), and in some cases even counties do. That stuff is cruft and oughtn't be involved. There are also plenty of named scenic byways out there that don't have their own shields - also cruft, leave it out. Everything in there currently seems to pass these tests so that's good.

Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.

[SSOWorld]

There don't seem to be any GRR signs on the Dubuque Wisconsin Bridge in either state, and signs point it off US 151 in Iowa and Wisconsin. So that would mean IA GRRDub should only be the part south of US61/151_S (which is only implicitly signed, so maybe it shouldn't exist at all, but it's officially part of the national route as signed from Illinois), and WI GRR should eat WI GRREDu.

PS: coloring https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=usatr by traveler count and looking for black segments can help find broken overlaps.

There are not - I commute the route regularly.  The WI GRR follows WIS 11 to WIS 35 as Highway63 said.  The IA GRR Exits 61/151 at 9/11th streets and follows one of them (have to check again) to Central/White St (the former route of US-52 basically until Sageville).  The IL Route does have signs on 20, but not the bridge.  RE IL-35, the lack of signs there is true (there are none)

[SSOWorld]

I'm fine with keeping the system around. We have systems like this in other parts of the world, it's entirely logical to have them in North America too.

That said, I would suggest keeping the scope of this system limited to routes signed with shields that span multiple jurisdictions. Great River Road, Historic Lincoln Highway, etc... this is the type of stuff people have wanted and that we're answering demand for. But many states maintain a bunch of their own named tourist routes (usually entirely concurrent with routes already in other systems), and in some cases even counties do. That stuff is cruft and oughtn't be involved. There are also plenty of named scenic byways out there that don't have their own shields - also cruft, leave it out. Everything in there currently seems to pass these tests so that's good.

Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.

Why? EU has enough routes to saturate the JavaScript so it takes forever to load, why cant NA?

j/k

[froggie]

I'm supporting a demotion to devel now. 

The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)

The GRR National Route crosses the river several times in Minnesota.

[Markkos1992]

I had to fix the section besides Westmoreland Mall and the broken concurrencies on the Lincoln Hwy by Fayetteville.  (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7323)

[formulanone]

NE LinHwy seems to be out of alignment / broken concurrency with US 30 in a few places.

- segment between Sunol and Lodgepole (L17E <-> US30_LodW)

- segment between Chappelle and NE 27 (US30_ChaE <-> NE27_N)

- segment just west of Big Springs (Rd195 <-> US30_BigW)

- segment in Big Springs concurrent with US 138 (US138_E <-> US138_W).

[si404]

Made Iowa's GRR one route that doesn't cross the river. Ditto Wisconsin.

Kept Illinois and Minnesota the same (ie what's called 'National Route' by them form chopped routes with other routes being separate chopped routes).

Rerouted LH in State Centre, IL. Synced Lake Michigan Circle Tour with US41 changes*. Removed Lewis & Clark from IA as I only added it as I thought it connected to the SD/MO bits and so gave an implied routing, but it doesn't and so it's unsigned, IIRC.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7324/files

*Here its me changing usatr files. Other broken concurrencies would be me changing other files, and I'm not doing that.

[neroute2]

Removed Lewis & Clark from IA as I only added it as I thought it connected to the SD/MO bits and so gave an implied routing, but it doesn't and so it's unsigned, IIRC.

I don't know how well it's signed, but it is.

[si404]

I don't know how well it's signed, but it is.

I remembered incorrectly then. Reverting that change.

[mapcat]

Si, you have my permission to edit routes in IN, KY, LA, MI, OH, and TN wherever you need to add points for the usatr routes.

Also, there's a spur for the Seaway Trail in Erie following PA 832.

[neroute2]

LCT has a connector on US 12 in Mobridge (east end, west end).

There is also one at Pierre (west end). Signage on the northbank between Pierre and Chamberlain is very sparse, and this sign implies it's not there, but there is this.

The LCT stays with SD 52 west of Yankton.

I can't find any LCT shields on I-29 south of SD 50, but there is this sign for a wayside exhibit.

LCT has a connector at Washburn (west end, east end).

There is also one on ND 810 in Bismarck (west end, east end). Finally this freeway gets added

LCTKen does not pass thru Kennebec. Instead it uses SD 47 north from Reliance to BIA 10, and presumably goes via Lower Brule to SD 1806.



The Yellowstone Trail also has signs in SD, but I haven't looked into how common they are.

[oscar]

Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.

The BC routes also seem at first glance to be completely concurrent with canbc routes. To me, including such routes in a tourist route system is a waste of effort, both for whoever is developing the system, and also potential headaches for the maintainers of the concurrent routes. This is different from, say, the Lincoln Highway, which seems to include significant mileage not already in TM.

Also, the BC routes seem to be deemed part of an international Selkirk route system reaching into Idaho. Those Idaho routes not only are concurrent with Idaho state routes, but I've driven many of those concurrent routes, and never saw any signage indicating they were part of any scenic route system, Selkirk or otherwise. (Ditto the BC routes, though I haven't traveled them as extensively as the Idaho routes.)

[cl94]

I'd be okay with the suggested demotion to devel. I love the idea of this system and stuff people have been wanting is in here, but a bunch of kinks to work out. Some of this stuff isn't super clear and I think we need to make some decisions.

I also think we need to have a detailed discussion about what counts/does not count as "signed", especially when signs are sporadic or follow multiple alignments, as well as "what counts as a sign?" For several of these auto trails, the main markings are paint or stone/concrete, not standard metal signs, and these nonstandard markings are clearly intended to serve as reassurance/directional assemblies in a way that EMMs or blade shields are not. This is especially relevant for the Lincoln Highway, because there are a crapton of painted shields and concrete markers along the route that people use for wayfinding, but other notable tourist/historic routes in the US are marked primarily with paint. Before the US Route system, paint and concrete markers were the original shields and were used as shields are used today, so I would argue that they should be grandfathered in, as some of the auto trail associations have been trying to maintain some semblance of historical accuracy with their signage.

As far as what's currently on the browser, the LH alignment along old US 40 in Sparks is signed east to McCarran Blvd. I can confirm there was a LH shield on that eastern segment as of last week. I can make that change myself in the coming days.