usanp (U.S. National Park Highways)

[charliezeb]

For the record, I got a reply from the NPS about Old Mine Road today.

"Old Mine Road is in fact a "public highway" and is open to through traffic within Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, and Sandyston Township. The section you asked about is bordered by private land on both sides of the road.  ( just north of the intersection with Kuhn Road  for roughly 1/4-1/2 mile/ There are 2 privately-owned homes- one up on the hill to the left and the other right along the road on the left, headed north.)  Please respect the owners' property and privacy when passing through.  The road is currently blocked by the NPS due to a large tree that came down across the road in a recent storm.  We are working with the property owners to remove the tree and restore access.  I realize now that we neglected to properly notify the public of this road closure and apologize for any inconvenience that may have caused."

The rep also wrote, "We will be doing some paving work on Old Mine Road this fall so check in to see when it will take place and where." But it may not apply to the "dirt" section between Kuhn Rd and Walpack Rd. More likely, it's the sloping section between CR 602 and NPS 615, and/or the stretch between Pompey Rd and Kuhn Rd.

-- Charlie O'Reilly

[oscar]

Park roads need not be paved to belong in usanp. usanp has at least one road (in Alaska) that's mostly unpaved.

[si404]

Old Mine Road has shields, which is the main reason its included. We might need to cut it short - GMSV isn't very good here (either old or missing).

[dfilpus]

On the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina, the first hidden waypoint west of NC226 is close to the interchange that connects to NC 226 Alt in Little Switzerland. It is signed on the Parkway as To NC 226 A. The hidden waypoint should be replaced with a visible waypoint for HighRidRd. NC 226 Alt has a waypoint for HighRidRd.

[si404]

On the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina, the first hidden waypoint west of NC226 is close to the interchange that connects to NC 226 Alt in Little Switzerland. It is signed on the Parkway as To NC 226 A. The hidden waypoint should be replaced with a visible waypoint for HighRidRd. NC 226 Alt has a waypoint for HighRidRd.

Done. It seems I had it like that as it really efficiently did the shaping and made what is now 6 points (I know, I could have left the old point) just 1 point.

I know this isn't a national park road, but one that could be considered - Woodlands Trace National Scenic Byway.  This (nor the land within) are managed by NPS - instead by US Forest Service, but it is a good park route that goes through the Land Btw The Lakes NRA in both Kentucky and Tennessee - also known (and marked as in OSM/Mapnick) as "The Trace".

I've added this as:
1) it's a decent route to have added (links state routes, etc)
2) NRAs are sometimes NPS-run, sometimes USFS (and one is someone else), so a road in a USFS-run NRA isn't too off-piste. It's not much different to where a city maintains a state route.
3) we're not doing a one route usafs system (maybe it might get moved into a usansb system) - though no doubt someone else will give another example of another one.

[SSOWorld]

On Hawaii's Crater Rim Drive, part of the loop is omitted. That part seems to coincide with the area park maps indicate is currently closed due to volcanic activity. But AFAIK that closure is only indefinite, not necessarily permanent, and indeed in 2012 part of the originally closed part of the road was reopened to foot traffic.

I drove the entire loop on one of my first visits to Hawaii ca. 2000. It may be reopened in its entirety, if the crater area calms down again. I would treat the current closure as temporary, and add the rest of the loop.

Also, VocObs => VolObs.

There are portions now that one can consider permanent now as they fell into the grown Halema‘uma‘u crater.  The overlook fell in.

https://www.nps.gov/havo/planyourvisit/images/20180619_overlook_parking_lot_collapse_usgs.jpg (image to large to show here)

The southern and western portions are either gobbled or likely too unstable to be useable when the park re-opens and it might be likely the drive will be closed for years.

[SSOWorld]

https://www.nps.gov/npgallery/GetAsset/65f2d82d-190e-453d-80c9-f3a450f2224d?

In Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, the Fault line map with larger crater shown - roads are drawn on the map.  The section of Crater Rim Drive that fell into the crater was erased. In addition, the rest of the road is certain to be laced with ash (short term problem), including the overlook (past HVO). It's safe to say that CraRimDir between WPS VolObs and ChaCraRd can be dropped.  I wouldn't be surprised if the rest remains closed to public access for a lengthy amount of time (year?)

The park is scheduled to re-open on Sept 22 - obviously with limited access and assuming the collapse doesn't resume.  Recommend re-assessment at that time.

EDIT: The map may contain hints to the future of Crater Rim Drive (Marking of "Closed" between Jaggar museum and Chain of Craters Rd.)

[Duke87]

Once more unto Old Mine Road: I went and drove the whole length of it (as currently mapped) today. I am going to propose it be truncated to the junction with NPS 615.

My primary justification for this is that there are zero shields anywhere north of this junction. Can verify personally as of today (technically yesterday in eastern time as it's after midnight).

Secondarily though, as Charlie describes, some of the road is rather iffy. Between Pompey Road and Dingman's Ferry, the road isn't just unpaved, it's a one lane gravel road with a lot of huge potholes in it. Here's a couple photos showing what we're dealing with here:



The section Charlie mentioned that has private property signs had a huge crater the entire width of the road. I had to drive on the grass next to the road (fortunately there was a car's width of grass next to the road) to get by.

This section certainly does not seem to me like something worthy of being mapped as a clinchable road.

[si404]

Noted - thank you all for the research.

Will truncate.

[oscar]

https://www.nps.gov/npgallery/GetAsset/65f2d82d-190e-453d-80c9-f3a450f2224d?

In Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, the Fault line map with larger crater shown - roads are drawn on the map.  The section of Crater Rim Drive that fell into the crater was erased. In addition, the rest of the road is certain to be laced with ash (short term problem), including the overlook (past HVO). It's safe to say that CraRimDir between WPS VolObs and ChaCraRd can be dropped.  I wouldn't be surprised if the rest remains closed to public access for a lengthy amount of time (year?)

The park is scheduled to re-open on Sept 22 - obviously with limited access and assuming the collapse doesn't resume.  Recommend re-assessment at that time.

EDIT: The map may contain hints to the future of Crater Rim Drive (Marking of "Closed" between Jaggar museum and Chain of Craters Rd.)

It's safe to assume that the segment gobbled up by the expanded crater will never reopen except on a new alignment, so snipping out that segment would be the easiest option. Not necessarily the other parts of the road that are merely "ash-covered", though maybe snipping at least some of them approaching the permanent closure would be appropriate, so we needn't spend a lot of time watching the volcano for additional permanent closures.

I might have a chance to field-check this all next month, though I probably will not be allowed anywhere near the permanent road closure.

[neroute2]

How about NPS 602?
http://www.google.com/maps/@41.073067,-74.9635212,3a,75y,203.68h,77.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVw4R-dz9UF1XJUAb1Ca-Yw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
There are also signs here for CR 602, but that route officially begins near the "Fountain of Youth Spring".

[Markkos1992]

FYI, I looked at the list of unprocessed wpt files and found the below route.  I do not know offhand what this is.

"hwy_data/PA/usanp/pa.autotrl.wpt" 

[Jim]

FYI, I looked at the list of unprocessed wpt files and found the below route.  I do not know offhand what this is.

"hwy_data/PA/usanp/pa.autotrl.wpt"

Loading it up in the wptedit program, it looks like a big collection of roads that wind around Gettysburg NMP.

[charliezeb]

Checking back in, thanks for the work on NPS 615 in New Jersey.

Next interesting question. I drove the stretch of George Washington Memorial Parkway between I-66 and I-495 yesterday, which I believe clinches that road for me. But I just noticed that the part of the road north of VA 400 is also listed in usasf (Select Freeways), albeit with no consideration for the district border (va.geowaspkwy is continuous even though the road runs in DC for a little over a mile). And they're separate files, with no overlap. Don't want to cross-post if I don't have to, but as a newbie I don't know the protocol.

[mapcat]

The GW Parkway has been part of usasf for many years, long before usanp was begun. Since it belongs in usanp, the usasf file will be deleted when usanp is promoted to active, but until then, it will exist in both.